I’m Ruben
and this is my blog on the science behind ice cream production
A bit of my background: I graduated from Aberystwyth University in 2007 with a degree in law and started law school in 2008. I quickly realised after the first day of law school that a career in law just wasn’t for me and so swiftly dropped out later that week. I packed my bags a few months later and headed to Cameroon where I volunteered as an English teacher. I found that I loved being in the classroom and so decided to complete a Certificate in Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages (CELTA) when I returned to the UK. I have since been incredibly fortunate enough to have taught in Japan, South Korea, Spain, Portugal, and Kuwait.
My second passion lies in food science and entrepreneurship. In 2011, I took my first step towards starting a food business by researching, and blogging about, the science behind ice cream production in my spare time whilst teaching in South Korea. I returned to the UK in 2017, after having spent 3 years working with the Kuwaiti Army, to start Rogue Artisan Ice Cream, a small-batch artisan ice cream company based in Manchester.
And that’s the story so far, feeeeeeeeeeeeew!
AWARDS
GREAT TASTE AWARDS
I won the GOLDEN FORK for the north of England at the Great Taste Awards 2018 where my Sicilian Bronte Pistachio Ice Cream was judged to be a top 18 product of 12,634 products entered. I’ve won a total of 8 GOLD STARS at the Great Taste Awards, including the highest award after the Golden Fork (3 GOLD STARS) for my Sicilian Bronte Pistachio Ice Cream, and for my Single-Origin Sumatran Coffee Ice Cream. I’m entirely self-taught and haven’t attended any ice cream or gelato making courses.
WHAT ARE THE GREAT TASTE AWARDS?
Great Taste, founded in 1994 and organised by the Guild of Fine Food, has judged over 134,000 products in the last 24 years; each one has been blind-tasted by a team of judges who are dedicated to finding the most exquisite tasting food and drink regardless of branding or packaging. The panel of judges in 2018 included MasterChef 2018 champion Kenny Tutt, chef and food writer Elly Curshen, eco chef and food writer Tom Hunt, author and chef Zoe Adjonyoh, baker Tom Herbert, author and blogger Izy Hossack, baker and recipe writer Martha Collison, as well as food buyers from Harrods, Selfridges and Sourced Market. These esteemed palates together tasted and re-judged the 3-star winners to finally agree on the Golden Fork Trophy winners and the Great Taste 2018 Supreme Champion.
Hi Ruben, just bought a ICE-100 and made my 1st batch of vanilla ice cream ever! It tasted great but it was a little ‘icy’ and could hear that ‘crunch’ as my spoon made contact with the ic, so thinking too many or too big crystals were formed.
Only ran the maker for 30mins as it looked like the consistency was like soft scoop at that time – was that too short? IC not cold enough?
My freezer was set at -2.F – is that not cold enough?
Transferred ice cream (approx. 3 cups) to plastic 4 cup container & laid parchment paper on top of ic to reduce crystals.
Time take to get into container and into freezer, approx. 2mins – too long?
Any help/suggestions would be most appreciated.
FYI – Love your site, content and great domain name!
Best…Alastair
I just bought an ICE-100 since I’ve gotten tired of freezing the canister for my ICE-30. The only downside I see to the ICE-100 is I get big clumps of half frozen ice cream riding around on the paddle rather than actually being mixed. After less than 20 minutes, there is often very little freezing or mixing going on, with the ice cream sitting statically, away from the bowl wall and not moving through the dasher. I wonder if you’ve found a way to mitigate this problem?
With my ICE-30 I was able to get the draw temperature to 14 F but not with the ICE-100 due to what seems to be this “clumping” issue, although all in all the ICE-100 still makes extremely creaming ice cream!
So I bought a Sous-Vide (Anova) and am trying to figure out how long I need to heat my custard base and at what temp. Reading Ruben’s blogs as well as other it’s been stated the higher the temp the eggier the ice cream. Some are using 180 degrees F while other go as low as 140 degrees F. Some Sous-Vide for 2 hours and others for 1 hour. Ruben uses 162 F for his recipes and heats them for 25 minutes but that’s on the stove.
The question is if I use 162 F how long do you think I need to use the Sous-Vide method to heat the custard?
Thanks
HiDDG, I’m actually testing temperature and time combinations in my kitchen at the moment. If you’re using sous vide, I’d recommend trying 78°C for 45 minutes and 80°C for 45 minutes.
All the best,
Ruben
Hello,
Two questions 🙂
Can skimmed milk powder be substituted with other solids, say, cocoa powder or ground coffee or dried coconut or anything else “dry”? If we take skimmed milk powder out completely, we then cannot achieve the “10.8% Not Fat Milk Solids” – is that OK?
Secondly how are we meant to mix the ingredients? I usually heat up everything except the yolks, then once it has reached 60C-75C (the temperature varies from top to bottom of pan) I then add some hot liquid slowly into the yolks while stirring then I add the yolks into the pan and continue for the 25 mins. I am not sure this is correct. My first batch was perfect but the second batch has a grainy texture, have I cooked the eggs may be? What is the correct way of heating up the ingredients?
Kind regards
I want to make gelato with my ICE-30 but I want to slow it down so that the overrun is between 15 and 20%. I bought a variable voltage regulator so I can adjust the dasher speed down from 26/27 RPM to as low as 8. Below 8 RPM there’s not enough power to turn the bowl.
It seems that the regulator isn’t linear, meaning if I run the regulator at full power or half power the RPM is still 26/27. It looks like my choices for RPM are 26/27, 22, 18, and 8.
My question is does anyone know what my overrun would for this various RPM rates given this is an ICE-30?
Thanks
I can’t answer your question about overrun and RPM but you might try modifying the dasher, the right shape will help reduce overrun. Extra dashers are available from the manufacturer at a reasonable price.
I just ordered an ice-70 dasher which seems to be an improvement over the ice-30 (the bowls are the same size and interchangeable).
I think I’ll just play around with the RPM speed to see if it makes better gelato.
Thx
Have you reviewed the Whynter 201sb? I never have room in my freezer for the ones that have to be started there. And don’t have the money for the Lello Musso machines.
I’ve been experimenting with ice cream making for years. Depite many recipes and techniques, I always return to a recipe by Dione Lucas. Lucas was the first TV chef in the US with a program that aired in New York dating to the 1940’s.
Her method is unique and I’ve never found a recipe like it even though the ingredients are the same as most. Sugar syrup is heated to the soft ball stage and poured slowly over egg yolks being beaten until the mixture cools to room temperature. Heavy cream only and flavorings are added, chilled over night, then churn freezed.
This produces the mouth feel of custard with a fresh cream flavor. I thought I’d share it to see if anybody was doing this and what they thought of the results.
I would love to see this recipe. Will you share or tell me where to find the recipe?
Thanks.
Aaron, thanks for your interest. Here’s the recipe;
Glace a la Vanille
1 cup granulated sugar
1/8 teaspoon cream of tartar
1/2 cup water
8 egg yolks
Pinch of salt
Scraping of half a vanilla bean
4 cups heavy cream (not whipped)
Combine the sugar, cream of tartar, and water in a small saucepan,
stir with a metal spoon over low heat until the sugar dissolves, then
let it cook at moderate heat until the syrup forms a thin thread between
the finger and thumb (225F). Beat the egg yolks in a mixer until very
light and fluffy Slowly pour in the hot syrup, beating all the time.
Continue beating until the mixture is thick and cold. Add the salt and
vanilla bean scraping. Mix in the heavy cream. Churn freeze.
This recipe is from “The Dione Lucas Book of French Cooking” by Dione Lucas and Marion Gorman
I scale this back to about 3/4 recipe to better suit modern ice cream machines, so as to allow for overrun. I also tend to use top quality vanilla extract because the bean scrapings don’t infuse well and I like a bit more of that flavor. Lucas uses this for a number of other types of ice cream, so I consider it something of a base.
Question: “Continue beating until thick and cold.” Cold . . . how is it going to get cold? Do you mean room temperature?
Yes, cool to the touch. Its like making an Italian Buttercream or Italian Meringue. Let the mixture cool so that when you touch the outside of the mixing bowl, it no longer radiates heat.Room temp.
thanks for the reply. last question how long do you beat the eggs for and what speed
Prior to putting in your syrup, beat the whites on med-high until double in size. If your syrup is not to temp by then, turn your speed to low and keep mixing. It’s important not to lose volume. Once the syrup is to temp, turn to medium and slowly pour syrup between beater and bowl. Make sure not to hit the beaters or you will loose the syrup to the sides of the mixing bowl. Once all the syrup is in, turn to high for 5 minutes. Then to medium unto cool.
Just to be clear, we are talking about egg yolks, not whites. Whites will double in volume, but yolks don’t. We are making the beginnings of a buttercream here, rather than a meringue.
Thanks, I ‘m going to make this today and churn it tomorrow. I’ll let you know how it turns out
Great to see you guys exchanging ideas on here. Ruben.
Yes, yolks without a source of heat will only expand slightly. If you are making a Buttercream with yolk, then the french technique or Sabayon is the process. If a white is involved then you will get more volume. I like to add half the sugar to yolk and beat it for about 12 minutes heating the bowl with a torch slightly, or bain marie. This will give the volume that is needed for most applications.
So the recipe calls for 8 egg yolks which I will place in a bowl and mix on medium speed until fluffy, or double in size which since I’m using yolks (not whites) isn’t going to double in size?
I’m going to look for light and fluffy with the egg yolks turning a pale yellow. I’ll time it!
Then I’ll add the sugar syrup slowly and mix on slow to medium. The question is do I turn up the mixing speed? Start at slow and move to medium or all slow or all medium or high at some point?
I’ll beat the mixture until the outside of the bowl is at room temperature. I’ll time it.
I’m going to add a whole vanilla bean’s seed and 1 tsp vanilla extract, the salt and the heavy cream.
Question is how long do I let mix after adding the 4 cups of cream?
The only other thing I can think of is I usually strain my custard, but I don’t think that possible with this recipe.
That’s it!
One other point. Instead of heating the syrup in a separate pot/pan. You can add all of the ingredients with the yolk in a mixer bowl. Put the mixer bowl over a pot of hot water(not touching the water but above it) and let it heat gradually stirring continually. You will only need to bring the yolk up to about 110 degrees. (your only cooking the yolk). Place it on the mixer with the beater attachment and beat on medium high for about 12 minutes until cool to the touch. You should double in volume. Continue with recipe. There are different techniques chefs use that do not require heating syrup, but this is completely up to you.
It should be noted that eggs need be heated to 138F to pasteurize them. Although it’s an extremely low probability, I would suggest using pasteurized eggs if you are making this recipe for anyone with a compromised immune system.
So I made Dione Lucas’s Vanilla Ice Cream. It was an interesting recipe but I can’t say it was better than David Lebovitz’s recipe nor the French Vanilla recipe from Simple Recipes:
https://www.simplyrecipes.com/recipes/french_vanilla_ice_cream/
I think where this recipe falls short is in the taste of Vanilla which Ken mentioned and the reason I used a whole vanilla bean and a tsp of vanilla extract.
Lebovitz’s and Simple Recipes have you steep the vanilla, milk, salt and sugar. In the case of Lebovitz’s recipe, for 1 hour.
I’m going to try this again but not soon since it makes close to two quarts.
Next time I’m going to steep 2 of the four cups of cream with the vanilla bean for an hour. The other thing is I’m going to cut the recipe in half—I really only need to make 1 quart of vanilla.
Here was my process:
1. Beat the 8 egg yolks for 12 minutes on level 4 for of my mixer (medium speed). 10 minutes would have been fine but I was waiting to get the sugar syrup up to 225 degrees F.
2. Poured the sugar syrup into the yolks with the mixer setting on 2 (low speed) then increased the speed to level 4
3. Beat this concoction for 9 to 10 minutes until egg color was a pale yellow and the bottom sides of the bowl were at room temp (not radiating heat).
4. Added salt and vanilla bean scrap and mixed at level 2 for 1 minute
5. Added 4 cups cream and mixed at level 2 for 1 minute
6. Added tsp of vanilla extract and mixed for an additional minute.
I then put it in the refrigerator to chill overnight. The next morning I found it interesting that the top of the mixture was frothy. I’ve never seen that before.
I used a whisk to stir it and then churned it in my Cuisinart ICE-30.
If I can bump of the vanilla taste this recipe would be a winner!
The issue with the Vanilla. I always scrap the seed and put the pod in the liquid to steep. Strain after cooking egg and then put the pod back into the liquid to chill overnight. Starin again. This will give you the vanilla flavor you are looking for.
The vanilla is problematic. I just made the basic vanilla ice cream from Dana Cree’s “Hello, My Name is Ice Cream” and the recipe calls for one vanilla bean or 2 Tablespoons(!) extract. The recipe uses glucose and a stabilizer and I think its pretty good.
I will say that it suffers from the same objection I have to most recipes – the cream tastes cooked.
My palate wants straight forward simple flavors, so for example, I smoke meat with only salt and pepper versus a 12 ingredient rub because I want to taste smoke and meat. Likewise i haven’t put cream or sugar into tea or espresso in decades because I like the taste of just tea or just espresso.
This is a personal preference, but in cooking, fewer ingredients means you have to have better technique and higher quality ingredients.
So to increase the vanilla flavor I took Leibovitz’s vanilla ice cream recipe and used Dione’s technique which seems to of made a really great vanilla ice cream. I served it to a friend who’s favorite ice cream is French vanilla. She said it was the best she ever had!
Hello, I know the breville is the only machine that actually has a frozen yogurt function. However, I was wondering if you could give me any insight on these three machines in regards to frozen yogurt and comparing the ice cream they each produce to frozen yogurt.
Hi there, I think I replied to you via e-mail? All the best, Ruben
You mention the importance of whey protein. Why not replace the milk powder with grass fed whey concentrate?
You can indeed substitute skim whey concentrate for skim milk powder Andy. There is a limit as to how much you can use though because of the off flavour of whey powder, can’t remember how much this is though off the top of my head.
Hope that helps.
Ruben
I replaced the skim milk powder from your recipe gram for gram with whey and there was no off flavor. I think the key is to use high quality whey powder. The ice cream turned out really good. One thing I did notice is that the cocoa powder, sugar, and whey (or skim powder) can’t all be dissolved by the egg yolks. I am thinking to only mix the yolks with cocoa powder next time as that’s the only thing that don’t like to dissolve in the milk and cream mix.
One other thing to keep in mind is that SMP usually contains almost half its weight in lactose (in other words, sugar) while whey protein is normally 80%+ protein. So the effect of each in the final product could be quite different.
Hi Ruben,
Im trying to replicate this coconut ice cream I had over in Thailand but Im having difficulties with storing it (it becomes frozen in the freezer and too many ice cyrstals). The recipe contains no dairy products such and milk or eggs so I guess its more like a sorbet than ice cream. I found your blog to be very helpful and informational but was wondering if you have any suggestions or recipes that covers more about sorbets and non dairy ice cream.
Best,
Alex
We use a coconut milk base for our chocolate ice cream. We use a percentage of corn syrup and sugar. Very smooth texture without icy-ness. We keep our base at -20. This works for us. Hope this info helps.
Hi there Alex!
Thanks for getting in touch. I haven’t done much work on sorbets or on non-dairy ice cream so may not be the best person to ask. To solve the ice crystal problem in your non-dairy coconut ice cream, I’d recommend increasing the fat content by using more coconut cream (if that is what you’re using). For both the non-dairy ice cream and the sorbet, generally the less water you have in your mix, the smoother the texture will be. For both the sorbet and non-dairy ice cream, I would recommend increasing the sugar content (or trying a combination of sugars such as sucrose, fructose, and maltose as fructose and maltose aren’t as sweet as sucrose and so you can use more to increase the solids content and decrease the water) to increase solids and decrease water. For the sorbet, try using more fruit solids.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
What? Fructose is sweeter than sucrose.
Thanks for sharing all of your information so far. It’s great to see someone really focus on the science and not reduce great ice-cream/gelato to only being “art”. I use your mix calculator and everyone loves the results.
I was wondering if you could cover the recent finds in Japan about polyphenol liquid extract and apply the science behind this to an experiment of your own?
Hi there Justin!
Thanks for getting in touch and apologies for the delay in getting back to you. Great to hear the spreadsheet is helping.
I haven’t actually heard of polyphenol liquid extract being used in ice cream making before so thank you for bringing that to my attention. I’m currently in the process of updating my post on stabilisers in ice cream so perhaps a paragraph on polyphenol liquid extract being used to halt melt down will be a nice addition. I might even try using it if I can get hold of some. I’ll let you know if I do get my hands on some.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
I’m studying gelato and I’m glad that you visited and taught english in our country in the past.
Anyway, I learned very useful things from your blog so Thanks a lot !
And, I’m planning to run a gelato shop in the future, so the information on your blog is also applied to making gelato, right?
I know the difference between the ice cream an gelato, so I wonder it can be applied to making gelato.
I’ll visit here soon again,
Joje
Hi again Joje,
Which country are you in? Great to hear that you are planning to open a gelato shop in the future. I would be happy to help if you have any questions.
All the best,
Ruben
This is a comment on the Judges’ notes at the top of the page. Wow, they are tough. It’s been awhile since I looked at your recipe, but two things helped me. First is to use pistachio paste to deepen the pistachio flavor. Second is to coat the chopped pistachio nuts with egg white+small sugar and toast in the oven. Creates a coating around the pistachios so they stay crisp rather than to become a bit soggy as the ice cream penetrates the outside layer.
Hi Roger!
I was a bit disappointed with only getting 1 star for the pistachio as that was the flavour that I was most confident about. I’ve found the judges’ feedback quite helpful though, especially the salt recommendation. Coating chopped pistachio nuts with egg white and sugar before toasting sounds very interesting. I’ve had a few people at food markets ask if I could put some chopped pistachios on top of the ice cream so will probably look into this. Do you freeze your chopped pistachios with the ice cream or sprinkle them on just before serving?
I wanted to have the pistachio “crunch” in the ice cream and a burst of pistachio flavor. So I added the pistachios at the very end as a mix in. I got the idea from a jenis ice cream recipe using pecans. She said that nuts get penetrated by the ice cream mix and tend to get soggy, which she counteracted with the egg white coating, baked on. Definitely worked for me.
Yes I’ve heard of ice cream penetrating mix-ins and making them soggy. Does the egg white coating add any flavour?
Sorry I didn’t see this earlier. The answer is “no.” In subsequent tries I’ve learned no to overdo the egg whites. You don’t want toasted egg white in the mix!
Hi Reuben, thanks for the blog, researching the science and making it easily available. A couple of questions:
Your spreadsheet doesn’t seem to take account of the fat that is in the egg yolks (30-40%?) is there a reason?
Do you aim for a specific egg yolk % and if so, is it to do with the science or the taste?
I’d be interested in your sous vide (non-evaporation) spreadsheet if you don’t mind sending it to me.
Thanks
Tony
Hi there Tony!
Thanks for getting in touch. I’ve only just seen this comment so apologies for the delay in getting back to you.
Yes the spreadsheet doesn’t take account of the fat in the yolks when calculating the total fat content. The formulations in Ice Cream by Goff and Hartel, on which my spreadsheet is based, don’t account the the egg fat content. I’m guessing this is because the milk fat is what contributes the desirable creamy texture and the fat in the yolks doesn’t have the same effect. I aim for about 4.2% egg yolk solids, which I’ve found works best for taste.
Sure, I’ll send you through the spreadsheet shortly.
Hope that answers your questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hello! Thanks for all the valuable information on your blog! i’ve been browsing for a few days now and there’s a lot of useful information in the comments as well.
We’re planning on adding ice cream / gelato in our menu and would like to get input on basic equipment that i would need to get started. As for the the ice cream maker, we’re are pretty set on the cuisinart-100 for the following reasons: we’re from the Philippines and that’s the only brand available under $1000 (50,000 pesos).
we run a small cafe by the beach so ice cream might just be a very good offering that can be fun and hopefully profitable.
after going through the blog, from what i understand besides the ice cream maker i will need some sort of equipment to heat the ice cream mix. so maybe perhaps an induction stove and a pot is all i need ( we do have a freezer )? anything else i’m missing?
Thanks heaps!
Seth
Hi there Seth!
Thanks for getting in touch and a big hello to you in the Philippines! Great to hear that you’re thinking of adding ice cream to your menu. The ICE-100 is a good choice.
Yes if you’re using eggs or raw dairy, then you will need to pasteurise your mix. Depending on how much you make, you could just start with a pan and thermometer and heat your mix over a stove whilst stirring. You could then get a hot plate, something like the Ika hotplates, which regulates the temperature for you but you will still need to stir the mix. You could then get an overhead stirrer to add to your hot plate to stir the mix. This is what I use but the set up is quite expensive. It might be a good idea to start with a cheap pan and thermometer and heat and stir the mix over your stove yourself. You can then work your way up to a hot plate and overhead stirrer if you find that ice cream is doing well for your business.
I hope that answers your questions. Let me know if you need a hand with the set up and good luck with your ice cream selling.
All the best,
Ruben
There is one other option to consider: Get a sous vide wand and use the sous vide method for cooking the mix. The sous vide wand is available for less than $100. I used Ruben’s modified recipe and cooked the mix in sous vide bags instead of on top of the stove, and the results matched the recipe stirred on top of the stove. The sous vide method has the advantage that you can “cook” several recipes at once so long as your water pot is large enough.
🙂
Hi there, Ruben.
I’ve been following your blog for a while and I have learnt tons of things from it and from the book Ice Cream by Douglas Goff. As a result I’ve written an ebook on ice creams (a recipe book mostly) in Spanish. I know you can’t understand it, but being that I’m so glad to have found your blog I’d love to send you a copy. But I can’t find an email address anywhere in the web.
I don’t want to impose, so just if you’d be interested in seeing your advice coming alive in photos, send me an email address where you can be reached. And disregard this comment if you’re not interested, I won’t be offended ;). Best, Miriam
Hi there Miriam!
Yes I remember that you got in touch before! Yes please I would love a copy of your ebook if you can send one to me! My e-mail address is ruben at icecreamscience dot com
I’m looking forward to seeing the pictures in your book 🙂
All the best,
Ruben
I could not leave a reply on the banana icecream thread for some reason. Given how nerdy you all are about icecream :o) it is probably not useful to you but you say about skimmed milk for whey, have your thought about using whey protein powder instead ?
Hi there Claudia!
Thanks for getting in touch. I’ve fixed the comments section in my recipe posts so thank you for bringing that to my attention. Yes you can use whey protein powder but the amount you used is limited because of the off flavour whey protein powder produces (I can’t remember how much exactly). Have you tried using any before and, if so, what did you think?
All the best,
Ruben
Ruben,
I hate to leave this questions in the “About Me” section, but for some reason the leave a reply option does not come up for me in the actual recipe section (using Google Chrome or Firefox). My question is regarding the Strawberry Balsamic Vinegar recipe. I am unsure as to whether you are using Traditional Balsamic Vinegar (the aged thick kind) or the grocery store kind (thin and mostly used as salad dressing). I assume there would be quite a difference between the two. Also, is it possible for you to email me the spreadsheet so I don’t have to bother you regarding the ratios (I don’t use the powdered milk)? Thanks!
Hi there Richard!
Thanks for getting in touch. Thanks for letting me know the comments on the Strawberry and Balsamic Vinegar recipe; I’ll try and get that fixed.
That’s a very good question. I haven’t made this recipe in a while but the last time I did, I used the grocery store kind. I think the thicker Balsamic would impart a more concentrated flavour, which probably wouldn’t be a bad thing. I will try and test the thicker Balsamic and update this recipe when I have some free time.
Sure, I’ll send you through the spreadsheet to your e-mail shortly.
I hope that answers your questions. Let me know if you need a hand with anything else.
All the best,
Ruben
Aloha Ruben!
Just finished reading a bunch of your post on the science of ice cream and your review of the cuisinart 100 machine which I have been looking at to purchase. Glad to hear it’s a good machine from someone who takes a more scientific approach to making ice creams! Really enjoyed the read. Do you have any spread sheets with your ratios and recipes? Any help would be appreciated!
Thank you,
-Neale
Hi there Neale!
Thanks for getting in touch. Good to hear the loooong ICE-100 review is helpful. I have my spreadsheet with ratios on my vanilla bean ice cream recipe post. Happy to send you an editable copy if you need it.
All the best,
Ruben
Dear Ruben,
I corresponded with you a bit over a year ago, and ended up purchasing a Cuisinart-100 for my bakery. We have been selling a lot (for us) of ice cream in the hot weather; today it’s 94′ farenheit. Customers have begun to ask about buying containers of ice cream, not just cones. In your latest posts you have recommended the Lello Musso 5030, but I wonder if there is a yet newer machine on the market which can do the same amount of recipe without some of the drawbacks you mentioned in your 2016 post?
For example, Musso Fiume 3 Quart Ice Cream Maker. They have a floor model with wheels; it is very expensive ($2799.00 but might be worth the cost. We don’t sell THAT much ice cream. On a hot day, 20 scoops is a lot.
I’d appreciate your thoughts.
Hi Judith!
Thanks for getting in touch again. Great to hear that customers are asking for containers of your ice cream. There is actually a new machine that I have just seen today by Emery Thompson; I have their larger CB-200 commercial machine. They have just released a 1.5 quart machine that you might be interested in. I saw it in this video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59Ti5TQdEJo&t=823s. He starts talking about the new machine after about 6 minutes and 20 seconds. I don’t know whether it is yet on sale as I can’t see it on their website but it might be worth calling them to find out. If you’re only selling 20 scoops a day, you could also look at the Lello 4080 Musso Lussino over the 5030. I’ve been using mine quite a lot lately as my test machine and am pretty impressed with it. I’ve also been looking at the Nemox 5K gelato machine. I haven’t tried it yet but am thinking in investing in one. I haven’t tried the larger Musso Fiume machine.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Dear Ruben,
many thanks for your thoughtful reply. I will certainly watch the video link you sent me. Meanwhile, I refreshed my memory of your review of the lello Musso 4080, which you also thought might interest me. But, as I reread your comments, it seemed to me that the 4080 churned only 750 gr while the Cuisinart-100 churns 900! So why would I switch? The problem for me with the Lello Musso 5080 is its weight.
Anyway, I appreciate your comments and will continue to read your blog. I also hope to taste your wonderful ice cream in person next time I get to England.
warm regards,
Judith Norell
Hey Judith!
In the first review I did of the 4080, I followed the manufacturer’s instructions and only froze a maximum of 750g. I’ve been using my 4080 quite frequently lately and have managed to freeze 1000ml of mix in one batch. At about 1050ml, it starts pouring out of the bowl as it freezes. I will try and update my 4080 review soon.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Thanks for noting that at 1050ml it begins to spill out of the Lello. I was wondering how far I could fill it before it would spill out. Now I know the limit to which I can push it.
Hello Ruben,
I have been getting more interested in making homemade ice cream, and have found your resources to be extremely helpful. I am particularly interested in learning more about the cream fat content of the heavy cream I have been using so I can begin testing more precise ratios. I will be contacting the sources shortly. I would like to apply the resulting information in my next batch. Would you mind sending me your spreadsheet when you get a chance?
Thank you,
-Greg
Hi Greg!
I just sent you over my spreadsheet in an e-mail.
Hope it helps.
Ruben
Just need some clarification in regards to freezing the container. Per your tips . . .
“TIP#2 – FREEZING THE CONTAINER
Take a 1 litre plastic container and the freezer bowl and put them in your freezer overnight. Freezing the plastic container will remove any stored heat. Heat stored in the container causes the ice cream that contacts the side and bottom to melt, resulting in an increase in ice crystal size.”
Do I place an empty 1 liter plastic container or is it filled, or does it matter? If I place plastic rap over my ICE-30 freezer bowl then place it in the freezer, where should I place the plastic container in relation to the bowl?l
Thanks.
Hi there Dave!
Perhaps my instructions could be a little clearer. I’d love your feedback on what you like and don’t like about anything on the blog so I can change/improve it!
Put an empty plastic container in your freezer to cool it down. This is so when you take your ice cream out of your machine after churning and place it in the container, it won’t start to melt against the relatively warm container sides. It doesn’t matter where you put the container in relation to your ICE-30 bowl, as long as you don’t place the container inside the bowl!
Let me know if that makes sense.
All the best,
Ruben
So is the liter bottle a cheap an easy way to lower the temperature of your freezer? If that’s the case should I put in multiple liter bottles instead of just one?
I’m not sure I understand what you mean. By a 1 litre container, I mean the plastic container that you will use to store your ice cream. You put this in your freezer empty so that your freezer removes heat that is stored in the plastic. This means the plastic sides of the container will be extremely cold when you then add in your ice cream. The 1 litre container won’t lower the temperature of your freezer. Does that answer your question?
LOL. Yes!
For some reason when you said a 1 liter container my mind thought of a 1 liter soda bottle as a way to lower the temperature of my freezer.
So yes, I put the container that will hold my ice cream into the freezer to get it as cold as possible along with my ICE-30 churning bowl covered in plastic wrap.
Funny how the mind operates!
We got there in the end! ?
Thank you first for all your hard work. Appreciated! I use a Carpigiani Batch freezer for all the ice creams I spin.I use cage free yolks as well as milk and cream that come from a local dairy, Unpasteurized. I do not use stabilizers. One in particular that I would like to have less ice crystals is a Honey Lavender ice cream. Certainly the honey has a lot to do with the iciness of the finished result. I changed the cream ratio to adjust the iciness. This works but an obvious change in taste as the honey is lacking. Questions: How to find the right ratio of that type of sugar (honey) to cream/milk. Is it possible to have a smooth texture with honey?
Thank you,
Aaron
Hi there Aaron!
Thanks for getting in touch. Which Carpigiani machine do you use and what do you think of it? I had a look at the small Labo counter top before I got my Emery Thompson CB-200.
I haven’t tried using honey as a sweetener before. Goff & Hartel in Ice Cream (7th ed) recommend using a combination of 9% honey and 8% sucrose for both the desired sweetness and honey flavour. Are you substituting all of your sucrose for honey? Honey depresses the freezing point more than sucrose does so if you use too much, you will find it difficult to freeze and harden your ice cream. This may be why you are encountering ice crystals in your honey ice cream: maybe you aren’t freezing enough water because you’re using too much honey, and consequently not creating enough ice crystals, during freezing. More ice crystals created during freezing in your machine result in smaller ice crystal size after hardening. I’d recommend reducing the amount of honey you’re using and increasing the sucrose.
I hope that helps. Let me know how you get on with your recipe.
All the best,
Ruben
When i visited India last year I had an incredible dessert called Halwa. it is carrot-based, like a dry pudding. I’ve searched the web for Halwa ice creams and all of them call for making a vanilla base and then adding the Halwa just before freezing. Do you have any experience with a root-based ice cream? Any suggestions? I would welcome ideas from any of your readers as well.
Hey Roger,
I’ve heard of Halwa before but I don’t think I’ve tried it. When you say a root-based ice cream, do you mean substituting either the milk or cream, or both, for a root base? I haven’t tried making dairy-free ice cream yet but it is something on my ‘to research’ list. If you did want to omit the dairy in your mix, you would need another fat source, something like a fine nut paste, cashew works well, or coconut cream. I keep seeing alternative fat sources to dairy in journals I skim but haven’t yet had the time to delve into this. I’ll start my research soon though and then bounce some ideas off you.
Hope that helps for now.
Ruben 🙂
No, I meant something different. I am trying to create a Ruben-162 ice cream that has the flavors of Halwah–cardamom, saffron, carrots, cream, sugar and ghee (clarified butter), allspice and cinnamon are options. I am using your basic vanilla ice cream as the basic recipe. During the cooking process I add cracked cardamom seeds and saffron. The resulting cream has a wonderful taste of Indian spices and a golden yellow color. The challenge I’m struggling with is how to introduce the carrot flavor. I’ve been baking carrots in ghee until soft, then adding Maple syrup (3T Maple syrup for 1.5 lb (900g) carrots and putting it through a blender to produce a puree. (1) First I added this to the custard; (2) Second I combined the puree and the mix and put the result through a strainer. (3) Third I added enough cream to the carrot puree so that it could pass through the strainer, and introduced it into the mix in two ways: (3)(a) by using a mixer to combine the custard and the puree, and (3)(b) adding the puree at the end of the freezing process like a fruit or chocolate mix-in. (1) had an unpleasant residue of fibers from the saffron and carrots. (2) tasted too much like pumpkin pie, was not scoopable until fifteen minutes passed and had a lot of ice crystals. (3) (a) was also not very scoopable and too many ice crystals. (3)(b) retained the lovely color and tast of the custard but the thread of carrot puree was almost frozen solid. At this moment i’m making cardamom schnapps (vodka and cardamom for 4 days) with the idea of introducing alcohol into the carrot puree to avoid the ice crystals.
My next idea is to try options (4)(a) Introduce 1T cardamom schapps into the carrot puree. Add the puree to the hot custard, mix together and strain before setting it in the refrigerator to ripen. (4)(b) Add enough of the hot custard to the puree so that it can be strained; cook the custard using the 162-25 method, and add the carrot blend in a ribbon during the final minutes of dynamic freezing. Any suggestions would be very welcome!!
Hey Roger!
I haven’t tried using carrots in ice cream before but I did look into making a roasted carrot ice cream a while back. I came across this video, which you might find useful: https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/flourless-carrot-cake. I’ll also try and send you a book on flavour extraction in an e-mail that you might find useful. It is going to take a few hours to upload so I will try and send it later this evening.
My preference would be to create a very smooth carrot puree or butter, something like a smooth pistachio paste, and then add that to your ice cream machine after you’ve added your base mix.
Hope that helps.
Ruben
Ruben, thank you for this incredible blog you have assembled. I’ve been reading through all of your articles and comments and it has been incredibly helpful as I put together my business making made from scratch ice creams in Southern California.
I’m currently looking at equipment (batch freezers) and have specifically been looking at some of the high end carpigiani and cattabriga machines which have both heating and freezing functionality (all in one…). Did you ever test these machines before buying your Emory? It seems that some of my ice cream heroes (Davey’s and Ample Hills in New York) also use Emory Thompson… any thoughts why?
Again, thank you for providing a wealth of knowledge to the ice cream world (I’m currently making my way through your recommended Goff and Hartel book… thanks for that too).
Best regards from California,
Sanders
Hi there Sanders!
Thanks for getting in touch and a big hello to you in sunny California!
Glad to hear the blog is helping. It is a work-in-progress and I still need to improve/edit a lot of the posts so I’m glad to hear it is still helping.
I haven’t ever tested the combined pasteuriser/batch freezer machines because I use a hot plate and stirrer as my pasteuriser. If you’re looking for convenience, one of these bad boys might be a good idea. I think you’ll pay quite a bit though for this convenience.
Emery Thompson machines have a reputation of being reliable and lasting a long time, which is why I think a lot of people use them. They also make great ice cream. I’ve just recently invested in their CB-200 and will hopefully try to write up a review on the blog once I’ve had more time with it. The CB-200 is a good way to get started because it’s relatively inexpensive.
Great to hear you’re making your way through Ice Cream by Goff and Hartel, you won’t regret it!
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Ruben,
So I am going to attempt you coffee recipe this weekend. My cream is 40%, and my milk is 3.5%. In addition, I would like to skip the milk powder this first time, which I realize will change my numbers considerably (and increase stirring by 30 minutes). Could you help me out with my ratios? Thanks in advance!
Rick
Hi there Rick!
Thanks for getting in touch, I hope this reply isn’t too late for your coffee ice cream!
Try this recipe if you’re heating for 60 minutes:
Cream at 40% fat: 403g
Milk at 3.5% fat: 485g
Sugar: 141g
Egg yolks: 72g
This will give you a 1100g mix before heating. After 60 minutes heating, you should have around a 32% reduction in the water content, giving a mix weight of 748g.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you need a hand.
All the best,
Ruben
Ruben,
Thanks for the info. I ended up making it before you replied, but actually wasn’t that far off from your numbers. Regardless, it was the best ice cream I have ever had, let alone made! Thanks for all the effort you put into this blog.
Rick
Oh, one last thing. I did the reduction in a 14″ skillet and was done in 40 minutes!
I have the same list of heroes! And I feel that ice cream science is at the top of my list.
Very kind of you Roger! Very motivating to read the comments on here so thank you for that.
All the best,
Ruben
I’ve been making ice cream for home consumption for about 10 years now and wish I came across your website years ago. Your explanation of the science of ice cream has helped me a great deal.
And for that I have placed you in my revered class of ice cream gurus: David Lebovitz, Jenni Britton
It’s a small group! 😉
Thanks again.
Dave
Hi there Dave!
Thanks for getting in touch and thank you for the kind and motivating words! 🙂
Let me know if you need a hand with anything on the blog.
All the best,
Ruben
I have a question about the 162 degree method for 25 – 35 minutes. I have followed this religiously, but it took a great deal of pushing the pan on and off the electric stove until I got a sous vide machine. Now I set the sous vide water at 170 degrees, float my saucepan with the mix in the sous vide water bath, and my mix stays within one degree of 162 for extended periods. With sous vide there is no danger of burning. With this in mind, is it necessary to stir the mix continuously? My tired arm is anxiously awaiting your reply!!
Hi there Roger!
Yes this method does take quite a bit of moving the pan on and off the heat source. I haven’t yet tried using sous vide but it is certainly something that I want to try. I think that if the yolks don’t curdle and you don’t get an unpleasant flavour that may arise if you burn the proteins, the sous vide method is fine. If you aren’t already doing so, I’d recommend combining all the ingredients in a saucepan and heating to 72°C for about 5 minutes, whilst stirring, just to make sure that all the solids dissolve in the mix. I would then transfer to a sous vide bag and continue heating sous vide.
My recipe does take account of the loss of water that occurs through evaporation so the texture of your ice cream, if prepared sous vide, may not be as creamy because you will have a higher water content. How does the sous vide texture compare to ice cream prepared stove-top? I’d be happy to send you an updated recipe to take account of no water loss during sous vide if you need this.
All the best,
Ruben
I may not have been clear. I did try the pure sous vide method, using your recipe and submerging a bag in the water. The result was icy compared to using your recipe. So, I changed my approach. I followed your recipe and brought the mix to 162 degrees on the stovetop, then transferred the pan to a sous vide bath set at 172 degrees. I let the saucepan float in the water and stirred for 25 minutes, as you recommend. The temperature of the mix stayed within a degree of 162 so long as the water ws 172 degrees. The reduction in total grams was not 15%, so I extended the period of stirring for 10 more minutes. It still was not reduced enough, but I put the mix through the ice bath at that point. The result was, as I say above, the best ever. Here are my questions: 1) if i want to submerge an enclosed bag in a hot sous vide bath, how should I change the basic recipe; 2) Assuming I do the open-saucepan-in-sous vide water approach, why am I having a hard time getting a 15% reduction? Any suggestions welcome!!
Ah I see. Interesting to read that the result of the pure sous vide method with my recipe was icy; confirms the importance of reducing the water content. Also interesting to read that you put your pan in a sous vide bath! Did you stir the mix when you had the pan in the sous vide bath?
What is the fat percentage of the milk and cream that you are using? I’ll put together a new recipe for you once I have these figures. I think you are having trouble getting a 15% reduction in 25 minutes because my guess is that you are not stirring your mix. I’ve found that the more you stir a mix, that is the wider and the faster the circular stirring motion, the more water is evaporated. This occurs to a certain point as I’ve found that if you stir vigorously and create bubbles, the rate of evaporation decreases. The size of your pan will also affect the rate of evaporation: you will evaporate more water with a wider diameter pan.
Hope that helps. Ruben
As the French say, voila! Stirring vigorously is the key! 25 minutes of vigorous stirring and I got precisely the desired 15% reduction. I can now say with certainty that the sous vide cooking method–resting the pan in a sous vide bath at 162 degrees–is the easiest way to implement what I call the Ruben-25 method of ice cream making. ALSO, I have found that Ruben-25 will compensate for other failings. I recently made the Lemon Curd ice cream and became distracted enough that Cuisinart turned itself off and the mix melted! I turned it back on until the mix reached soft serve consistency and put it into the freezer. The result: smooth, scoopable, gorgeous ice cream.
🙂
The only thing you are reducing to reduce the overall mass is water content – the fat, sugar, etc doesn’t evaporate. So reduce your skim milk such the the water is reduced 15%. Skim milk is 87% water to for every 150g grams of reduction so assuming you are making a 1000g batch), reduce skim milk by 172 g. This way you can still bag you mix and cook it sous vide and not have to worry about the evaporation. For a small, one man operation this allows me to match numberous batches at once. I was able to cater a charity function with 500 guests by offering 5 very unique flavours that everybody loved! Our most popular was an egg nog (it was uber creamy and the rum softened it nixely as our battery run freezer was a little tool cold).
Here are details on my recipes. I started with Ruben’s spread sheet. I use U.S. whipping cream, which is 36% fat and U.S. Whole milk, which is 3.25% milk fat. Put this into the spread sheet and the basic recipe becomes 532 g cream, 205 g whole milk, 46 g skim milk powder, 140 g sugar, 78 g egg yolks. The mix is 19.8% fat, 9.2% milk solids, 46.84% total solids. When I cooked the mix on the stove for about 45 minutes to an hour I was able to get the 15% reduction, bringing the fat% up to 23.29%, milk solids 10.94%, total solids 55.11% Wonderful mix.
Later, I put the same mix into a sous vide bag and cooked it for one hour in water at 162 degrees. The resulting ice cream was tasty but somewhat icy.
For the next batch I put the same mix into a pan, brought the mix up to 162 degrees on the stove burner, then let the pan containing the mix float in a container of water being held at 170 degrees by a sous vide gadget, with me mixing constantly. The mix stayed at 162, but after 25 minutes there was only a 5 per cent reduction. After 40 minutes I gave up, only a 7 percent reduction. The resulting ice cream had a wonderful texture and mouth feel, was as good as the stove top version.
This past week I made one more try, with the following modification: I reduced the cream to 432g and increased milk to 305g; I brought the mix to 162 degrees, then floated the pan in a sous vide bath set at 170 degrees, and stirred the mix with a whisk for 30 minutes. Once again, the scoopability, texture and mouth feel were superb. But the reduction in total weight was only 5 – 7 per cent.
SO, my questions are these: (1) Can either or both of you give me recipes that would allow me to make good ice cream in a closed sous vide bag? (2) Can you suggest why it is so hard for me to get a 15 per cent reduction using the standard mix and a home sous vide gadget. Thanks so much for your time and attention. I love the ice cream I get from Ruben’ method.
Roger Conner
Hi Roger!
Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. Been a hectic few weeks here trying to get the new machine working and a commercial kitchen space sorted; slowly but surely.
To end up with 1000g of mix, around 900ml, after heating closed sous vide, try this recipe:
Cream at 36% fat: 637g
Milk at 3.25% fat: 40g
Skim milk powder: 70g
Sugar: 163g
Egg yolks: 90g
This will give you a mix comprising 23% fat, 10.70% not-fat-milk-solids, 16.29% sugar, 4.32% egg yolks, and 54.47% total solids, which is the same composition as my vanilla bean ice cream after reduction.
I’d recommend briefly heating all the ingredients together in a pan just to ensure that they are properly combined. Heat no longer than a minute or two and you don’t need to get the temperature up to 72°C; heating is purely to combine the ingredients. You can then transfer to a sous vide bag, close, and heat for 30 minutes instead of 25 to compensate for losing the 5 minutes it usually takes to get the mix up to 72°C using the open pan method.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you need help and please do let me know how the ice cream turns out.
All the best,
Ruben
🙂
Voila! We have done it. Sous vide is a substitute for 25 minutes of stirring.
I created the mix using the following modification of your recipe:
532 g cream (US)
140 g whole milk
70 g skim milk powder
163 g sugar
90 g egg yolk
trace salt
I reduced the cream from the recipe in your reply, above, as i’ve done with the regular Ruben 162-25 recipe to avoid a buttery mouth feel. I followed the directions (mix yolks into dried ingredients, let rest, mix with milk and cream, bring to 162 degrees farenheit while mixing. I set the sous vide water bath at 162 degrees, poured the mix into a plastic bag, submerged it, and set the timer at 35 minutes. Came back twice and massaged the mix. After 35 minutes, finished the mix as usual (ice bath, refrigerator overnight, into the ice cream machine the next day.
The result is virtually identical to that from the Ruben 162-25 method. Smooth, scoopable, great mouth feel, no ice crystals.
To Daniel: I was confused by your reply since I’m not using skim milk; I’m using whole milk and adding skim milk powder. Would you be willing to share the recipe you use for your basic mix when cooking it sous vide? How does it compare to mine? Ruben, I’m very eager to see if you or others can replicate my finding. As Daniel says, this method makes it possible to make multiple batches at once (the only limitation is the size of your sous vide bath!)
Do you use skim milk powder in your sous vide recipe Roger?
Hi Ruben all the way from Mexico, as an entrepreneur I´m searching for all possible info I can get to get the best possible ice cream, such as cremmy, texture, flavor, ice cream makers, etc. Soon i will star selling ice cream here in Coatzacoalcos, which is a hot region here in the Golf of Mexico…
Maybe work together if I can explain my goals but regardless is awesome you put online all this data
Hi there Alonso!
A big ola to you in sunny Mexico and apologies for the delay in answering your question.
Great to hear that you will be selling ice cream, have you started yet? I’d be happy to keep on touch and exchange ideas. My e-mail address is rubenporto at icecreamscience dot com.
All the best,
Ruben
HI Ruben,
I tried to reply to the thread on YouTube but for some reason it won’t let me. I have a further question for you about the Lello Lusso machine. (I asked you about the thermometer; your response was very helpful!)
So, I made ice cream in this machine you review here and the bases I was testing came out so that they left a film in my mouth after I ate the frozen Ice cream. Do you think I over-churned (churned for 15 minutes) or does that have something to do with the butterfat content?
Thank you.
Hi there!
Yes it sounds like the milkfat content in your mix is too high if you are left with a buttery layer in your mouth, over-churning won’t have an effect on this. I’d recommend lowering the amount of cream that you use. Do you use eggs in your mix? Do you know the milkfat percentage of your mix?
All the best,
Ruben
Thanks Ruben, this is helpful. Yes I also use eggs. I ascribe to a similar base philosophy as you do. I reduced the amount or heavy cream in my base and it worked out. I find though that I have to adjust my base dependent on the flavorings I use. Chocolate, for example, requires a different base. Do you find this to be the case, too?
Many chocolates can have anywhere from 10% to 70% or even 80% cocoa fat. Lower quality choccolates will actually include milk fats and milk solids.
Presumably you are making a high quality artisnal product so I would recommend sticking to hifh quality chocolates that only contain cocoa solids, cocoa butter and some form of sugar. With my business, I also tens to stick only to darker chocolates which contain less cocoa butter – milk chocolate is generally more popular but I find almost no commercial dark chocolate ice creams on the market and my customers tend to want something unique and different.
That said, I do need to adjust the cream/milk ratio as still additional fat content throws it off. I tend also use a mix of pure cocoa powder, dark chocolate and natural chocolate extract to minimize the different. Trial and error is best as chocolates differ but I tend to increase milk/reduce cream by 5%.
🙂
Great to hear your base worked out. Yes I find that I have to slightly reduce the milkfat content in my mix dependant on what I add, but usually not by much. Chocolate and lemon curd are the two flavours that come to mind.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben, how are you?
i tried to make coffee ice cream yesterday, but i have some trouble because my ice cream became waxy and I noticed small bits of wax/fat. do you know what’s the problem?
Thank you
Hi there Vik!
I think you might be using too much milkfat in your mix. Do you know the percentage of the milkfat in your mix?
All the best,
Ruben
The percentage of my cream is 35,5% but i don’t know the milkfat percentage of my milk. how do you calculate the percentage of milk fat after combining milk and cream?
usually i used 2(milk):1(cream) volume comparison, the milkfat of my mix should be safe right? because usually people use the opposite comparison for the mixture.
Thankyou, i hope you can help me solving my problem
Hi there Vik!
Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. The percentage of fat of your milk should be stated on the bottle. Do you know if you are using full-fat, semi-skimmed, or skimmed milk?
I have a spreadsheet that I created to calculate my mixes. You just need to enter your target butterfat of your mix, the amount of milkfat in your milk and cream, and it will then tell you how much milk and cream you will need in your mix. I’d be happy to send this to you if you need it.
Have you tried one of my recipes on the blog to see how the texture compares to your ice cream?
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Can I have your spreadsheet as well? Thanks! My email is 927074210@qq.com
Thanks again.
Summer
No worries Summer, I’ll send it through shortly.
Hi Ruben,
i’m sorry i didn’t notice that you already reply my message.
I used full fat milk (fresh pasteurized milk), do you know the usual fat content of full fat milk?
can i have your spreadsheet? my email is vicnate7@gmail.com.
i’m wondering do i need to heat my mixture until 30 minutes? because i think if i heat my mixture for 30 minutes, it’s gonna be too long and not efficient for ice cream in large production.
Thank you Ruben!
Hi Vik!
Whole milk here in the U.K is usually around 4% fat. Sure, I’ll send you through the spreadsheet shortly. If you don’t want to heat your mix for 30 minutes, you could try adding a stabiliser to your mix; this will give you similar results to heating for 30 minutes.
All the best,
Ruben
Hey Ruben,
You have such a great blog. I have read almost all of your articles and I am keep reading. I have learn a lot, Thanks for sharing those valuable information. I am an engineer but I am interested in making an ice cream. I am in learning phase and I hope that I will start my business very soon. I have seen in your article of Emulsifier that you have created your own spread sheet for calculating mix percentage, could you plz share it with me via my e-mail (Sultan.trade2016@hotmail.com).
Thanks & Best Regards,
Sultan
Hi there Sultan!
Thanks for getting in touch. Glad the blog is helping. I’d love to get your feedback on what you found helpful and, more importantly, what you don’t like about the blog so that I can improve it. Sure, I’ll send my spreadsheet through shortly to your e-mail.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
It is so great to find your website and I’ve learned a lot from it. I am going to start a small ice cream business in couple of months. I don’t have a good budget to invest to those fancy giant Italian ice cream machines. I want to start from small. Most of the ice cream machines I found in the market are with small capacity . I am thinking of buying couples of 4-quarts old fashioned ice cream makers, such as the ones from Nostalgia or Hamilton Beach. As long as I have enough rock salt and ice, I can make batches back to back and don’t have to wait. Do you have any suggestions regards to these kind of ice cream makers? Or it will be great if you are willing to provide better options. Thanks!
Summer
Hi there Summer!
Thanks for getting in touch. Great to hear that you’l; be starting your business and glad that the blog is helping.
I’ve never actually used a salt and ice machine before. I’d say that something to take into consideration will be the temperature that you will be able to get the ice and, in turn, the freezer bowl down to. The the lower you can get the temperature of your bowl, the better. This is because lower bowl temperatures will mean that you will be able to freeze your ice cream faster, which will mean that the ice crystals will be smaller and the texture smoother. I can get the freezer bowl on my Cuisinart ICE-30 down to around -24°C when I set my freezer to around -25°C. This temperature has a considerable effect on reducing the freezing time compared to when I get the freezer bowl down to around -18°C.
I’d recommend looking into different types of salt, as well as the optimum salt to ice ratio, to find what will produce the lowest temperatures. remember reading that an ice and calcium chloride solution, where the solution is made up of 20% calcium chloride, will get you temperatures of around -18°C. A 20% sodium chloride and ice solution will get higher temperatures of around -16°C, which is not ver cold.
I also think that it may be a bit of a pain having to set up and clean your ice and salt machine every time you want to use it, especially when you start making more ice cream. If you’re just starting out and looking for a cheap machine to test your recipes, I’d recommend going with the Cuisinart ICE-30 or ICE-21. Both are great but require a really cold freezer to get the best out of them. You can then work your way up to a compressor machine, something like the Cuisinart ICE-100, when you start making more ice cream.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions and good luck with the business.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi,Ruben
Thanks for the information. I’ve been studying Jeni’s Ice Cream, which doesn’t require egg yolks. Not using egg yolks saves a quite a mount of working time when making ice cream, which is good news for businesses runners . Do you think egg yolks playing a significant role as an emulsifier?
Thanks!
Hi again Summer!
Yes I do think that egg yolks play a significant role in ice cream, similar to the role that emulsifiers play. I remember trying an egg-free recipe a long time ago and wasn’t as impressed with the texture.
Hope that helps.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Me again! I am going to a local market festival with my ice cream. Therefore, I am thinking using a tricycle with refrigerator. What should I be caution when selling ice cream on the street? Do you have any suggestion regards how to minimize ice cream from melting? Should I make fresh ice cream every morning or the day before in order to have the best quality? What kind of refrigerator should I use?
Thanks!
Summer
Hi again Summer!
Great to hear that you will be selling your ice cream. How will you power your freezer? I would highly recommend getting a chest freezer that you can plug into an electricity supply or car battery as this will allow you to maintain a more constant temperature and prevent melting. i wouldn’t recommend one of those freezers that act more like a cool-box and can’t be plugged into an electricity supply. Any second-hand chest freezer will do as long as you can put it on something with wheels for easy transportation. I would recommend getting a large umbrella to shade your freezer as direct sunlight will significantly vary the freezer temperature, which isn’t good for the texture of your ice cream. Try and minimise the amount of times that you open and close your freezer door as this will cause the temperature to fluctuate, which, again, isn’t good for texture.
I think you will struggle to make enough ice cream on the morning of the day you are due to sell: producing enough to sell and getting it down to scooping temperature of around -15°C will take quite a long time, depending on how much you make (it will take about 4 hours to get 1 litre of ice cream from the temperature it comes out of the machine to around -18°C). My advice would be to make ice cream the day before you sell. Producing and selling on the same day will be extremely tiring.
I hope that helps. Let me know how you get on and if you need any other help.
All the best,
Ruben
I used the Jeni’s cookbook when I started making ice cream in a serious way about six years ago. I made at least 25 recipes from her books, and I enjoyed them all. That said, once I discovered Ruben’s method, I found that it produces ice cream that is superior in taste, mouth feel and “scooopability.” Superior in every way. I have not been tempted to go back, even though the Jeni’s recipes are somewhat less time consuming (and don’t require 25 minutes of stirring!!!
🙂
Hi Ruben, how’s your ice cream business in Wiltshire?
i run a small batch ice cream too :),
do you know about Jeni’s ice cream from columbus, OHIO?
She is very popular with philadelphia style ice cream because she is not using any egg for stabilizer and emulsifier. I wonder why you never try jeni’s method? have you ever study about the method and compare with french style?
Regards,
Hi there Vik!
Thanks for getting in touch! Business is going well, although I’m actually in the process of moving it up north to Manchester. Where are you based? I have indeed heard of Jeni’s ice cream in Ohio. I haven’t yet tried one of her recipes, or an egg-free recipe, as I think the yolks play a significant role in promoting smooth texture and also impart a nice rich taste. An egg-free recipe is on my to-do list and I’ll post my results when I have some free time.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben!
thanks a lot for your replied, are you already moved to north manchester and start your ice cream business there?
by the way, i’ve heard from a friend that he usually using cuisinart ice-100 for making ice cream but when he tried to use commercial machine with the same mix custard (Churning 3 Litre custard in a batch) the taste was changed. So he need to adjust the recipe when he want to use the commercial machine.
have you ever try commercial ice cream machine? and have you ever experienced things like that?
thank you!
Vik
Hi Ruben
Thanks for a great website and all the helpful reviews on the Ice Cream Makers. I am looking to buy one and I saw that there is a “Magimix Gelato Expert Ice Cream & Sorbet Maker” that looks affordable and very good.
I was wondering if you have ever had the opportunity to test one of these and if you have any thoughts on it?
Thanks so much.
Hi there Andrew!
Thanks for getting in touch! I haven’t tried the Magimix machine myself and didn’t know it existed until now. There doesn’t seem to be any information about it on amazon. How did you stumble upon this machine? Are you looking to buy something for commercial production or ice cream making at home? I’d recommend looking at the Cuisinart ICE-100 if you’re looking for a machine to make ice cream at home.
Hope that helps.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
My name is Ashley and I am in my third year of a food science and nutrition degree. Whilst looking for a good recipe for insect ice cream I came across your work. First of all, what an amazing job you have, and secondly thank you for being so open with your work and the steps you have taken to get to where you are, there are so many good tips in the comments!
As I said, I am trying to make insect ice cream and was just wondering if you knew of any recipes which would be particularly good for this or if you have done this yourself and how you found it.
Thank you, Ashley 🙂
Hi there Ashley!
Thanks for getting in touch. I’ve actually tried making caramelised cricket ice cream; here is a link to the recipe.
Please do let me know how you get on if you give the recipe a try.
Hope that helps.
All the best,
Ruben
Hello Ruben,
Thank you for getting back to me so quick!
There is loads of great information and ideas on that page for when I write up my NPD report so thank you very much.
If I end up using the recipe, of course I will let you know how I get on!
Thanks again, and have a lovely Christmas and new year,
Ashley.
A Merry Christmas to you Ashely!
All the best,
Ruben
Hi, Ruben! I recently released a podcast episode on “Ice Cream Engineering,” and I’m spreading the word about it. It looks like you and your fans might be interested in this, so I just wanted to share it with you: https://soundcloud.com/piuswong/ice-cream-engineering It’s more oriented toward teachers, but I think any ice cream enthusiast could appreciate it. Keep up the cool work!
🙂
Hey Ruben I was reading through some of the conversations that had gone on on your several threads, and I read that you had a spreadsheet that you used to calculate your mix. Do you think that it is still possible for you to do that? I’m trying out a couple of different things, but a formula creating spreadsheet would make my life a lot easier. Thanks. my email is rocales@gmail.com
Hi there Roberto!
Thanks for getting in touch. Sure, happy to send the spreadsheet through; I’ll send it through to your e-mail.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
I’m currently writing up a business plan for an ice cream shop and I was wondering if you had any good sample business plans or templates that I could leverage?
Cheers,
Hi there Amanda!
Thanks for getting in touch. I used the business plan template on the Prince’s Trust website: https://www.princes-trust.org.uk/help-for-young-people/tools-resources/business-tools/business-plans
Hope that helps. Good luck with the business.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi, have you ever tried the Gelato Cube 750 or 1500 machine?
http://shop.gelato24.de/eislabor-und-eismaschinen/tischgeraete/810/eismaschine-cube-750
http://shop.gelato24.de/eislabor-und-eismaschinen/tischgeraete/812/tischgeraet-eismaschine-cube-1500
What is your thoughts on this?
Hi there Kostas!
I haven’t tried either the 750 or 1500 Gelato Cube. They both look very interesting and are now on my to-try list so thanks for bringing them to my attention. Where did you hear about them? I can’t seem to be able to find their website.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben and thanks for the reply,
I found them while intesively searching for an ice cream maker that can make professional gelato and it is affordable for a small business (cafe restaurant etc…) I will give it a try on a local supplier here in Greece and let you know my experience and quality of gelato.
The website is http://cubeitaly.com/
Thanka again.
Hi Ruben, hi Kostas,
did either one of you ever get a chance to work with the gelato cube machines?
In comparison to the musso they offer interesting features like motor shut of when the mixture gets too hard or paddle churning stop when opening the lid.
however, the churning rotation seems to be almost only half of the musso machine (I was only able to compare it by looking at some youtube videos).
Being a complete rookie in the world of ice cream making it is difficult for me to judge the effect of this on the ice cream quality. I am guessing, that the cube machines might not be able to create as much air cells as the musso and therefore have an effect on the mouth feel.
With all your expertise and knowledge, how would you look at it and which machine would you prefer?
greets
ingo
Here the info I got from the manufacturer:
Cube 750 rpm 64
Cube 1.5 rpm 82
overrun, it depends a lot on the mixture made, we are on 20-25%
I suppose the small version with even lower rotation speed will only reach something around 20%…the larger version off course offers double capacity, but also is quite a bigger investment…ok if your running a business, but for home usage probably oversized…
ingo
Hi Ruben… it’s a very nice website full of information, thank you!
May I ask you about the use of dextrose as part of total sugar in ice cream recipe? I mean, do you think ice cream made with dextrose is considered less natural than one made with unrefined natural sugar?Regards and sorry my English.
Hi Lucio!
Thanks for getting in touch! I have never used dextrose in ice cream before so don’t know if it is good. I will research dextrose in the future and will post my research on the blog. Sorry I can’t be of more help now.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben, I’ll try some recipes of you, thank you so much.
?
Reuben, you mentioned in one of your posts that you use a magnetic stirrer hot plate. Any model that you recommend?
Also, I would like to make large batches of ice cream base for my new business at one time -I am doing the business on the side and have to rent a commercial kitchen to comply with food safety regulations. Preferably, I would take two or three days every month or two and make large supplies. I do use stabilizersome but my freezer only freezes to -18C. I was wondering for storing the ice cream if I could freeze the unchurned base and then thaw and churn when need to avoid ice crystal build up?
Hi Daniel!
I use the IKA C-MAG HS 7 to pasteurise 1.5 litre batches. If you’re looking to make larger batches, I’d recommend looking into an IKA overhead stirrer to use instead of the magnetic stirring bar; I find that the stirring sometimes slips when I make larger batches. I’ll be upgrading to an overhead stirrer when I start making larger batches. Have a look on e-bay as I’ve seen a few cheap used IKA overhead stirrers.
That’s a good question. I suppose you could freeze the unchurned base and then thaw when needed but I suspect the quality of your churned ice cream may not be as good as a freshly churned batch. I haven’t tried freezing a liquid mix before so I’d recommend that you try and freeze a small 1 litre batch, thaw and churn, and then compare the texture to a freshly churned batch.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Brilliant site and terrific recipes — many thanks!!
Some of the recipes on the site seem to have errors though.
For example, the Strawberry and Balsamic Vinegar ice cream recipe lists balsamic vinegar as an ingredient for which “4 Tbsp” are required; but in the actual recipe, it then says add the “4 tsp” to the strawberry mix. Which is it?
In the Red Wine ice cream recipe, salt is not listed in the ingredients, but then it is in the recipe to be added — no idea of how much.
Also, may I recommend a standard (modern-style) format for all recipes that is consistent and tends to be a bit briefer? At the moment there seem to be two variations on style — one more modern-looking than the other, which is even more verbose. All the detail should definitely not be lost though — it is very important and should be consolidated into an updated and expanded Section 1 that should provide comprehensive explanations and academic references, but then that material could be referenced in the recipes with hyperlinks. Just a suggestion.
Thanks again!
Hi there Jonathan!
Thanks for getting in touch! 🙂 Thank you for pointing out the errors in the Balsamic Strawberry and Red Wine recipes and for your suggestions! I’ll correct the errors shortly. I’m in the process of updating all of the recipes on the blog to make them shorter and easier to read, and also to consolidate most of the science in one post. I’ll be updating the recipes that haven’t already been done when I have some free time.
I’d love to get your feedback on any of the recipes you do try and also on what you would like to see improved on the blog 🙂
Thanks again!
Ruben
Hi Ruben, scrolling through the comment section perhaps I don’t see a discussion of the advantages of heating and then maintaining the mix at 162F rather than just taking the mix up to 178-180F as many home recipes suggest. Is the long period at somewhat lower temperature about safety/pasteurization for a commercial product or does it also improve flavor? I’m actually about to test this, but could not help asking anyway! Thanks in advance.
Hi Alice, I thought I’did chime in. At 74C, salmonella is pasturized in 15 second and is food safety as long as it is chilled quickly enough. Pasteurization can occur at temperatures as low as 49.5C, if I remember correctly, but must be maintained for several hours at that temp.
The reason for heating to 72C and holding for approximately 25 minstrel is to do with flavour, reduced risk of scrambling your eggs a day evaporation. First, at higher temperatures the base will take on a more eggs flavour. Secondly, if you don’the temper your eggs properly at higher Temps, you risk scrambling you eggs. Finally, the length of time is well in excess of what is needed to safely cook the eggs however, it is designed to achieve the required mass reducecation through water evaporation and thus achieve his target fat percentage…
I hope that about sums it up, Reuben.
Great reply Daniel!
Hi there Alice!
Thanks for getting in touch! Have a read through my post on the science of ice cream making for the benefits on texture of promoting partial protein unfolding through prolonged heating. I’ve found that prolonged heating plays a significant role in promoting smooth texture. Prolonged heating is primarily to improve texture but is also important to pasteurise the the mix.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben 🙂
I can tell you, based on experience, that the primary effect of prolonged heating is to make the resulting ice cream incredibly smooth to the tongue as well as scoopable when serving.
*wealth of
Hi Ruben,
Thanks for all the advice on the site – It’s obviously taken lots of time to develop the wealthy knowledge you have so appreciate you sharing it. I thought you had a science background initially until I read the ‘about you’ page. Really impressive! I’ve been reading the Ice cream Ebook from U-Geulph but it’s been hard going!
I started my Ice-cream company last year – people love the ice cream but I’m not happy with the texture.
I was using a small batch ice cream maker but have invested in a Carpigiani Labo and in scaling up (to making 5l batches) and changing machine, my ice cream is just not the same. It’s beautiful when it’s dispensed but after freezing it at -22 in a commercial freezer and warming up to serve around -15, it’s almost crumbly in texture. It also tends to go from crumbly to melting…there doesn’t seem to be an in between. Do you have any idea what the crumbly texture is about? I wondered if I was over-churning it? Or is this the lack of protein?
Like Jeni’s Ice cream, I don’t like to use egg yolks, so I am reliant on skimmed milk powder and the milk for proteins and of course the cream and milk for fat. I know you don’t agree, but I have been using some gums and emulsifiers to see if that helps but there are so many variables and possible combinations that I just can’t trial them all!! Do you think condensed milk (acting as a serum solid) would help? I’ve tried using inverted sugars and that has helped a little.
It’s also still quite icy – from looking your recipes I wonder if I’m using enough skimmed MP. I also have never weighed to check reduction so I’m going to give that a go (thanks for the tip). I should also say that I tend to use around 35% cream and 65% milk to make up the milk fat in my recipes. The super creamy texture doesn’t work too well with my flavours.
Thanks in advance, Ruben.
Laura from London 🙂
Ps. Do you do any recipe consulting work?
There’s a recent blog series on homemade ice cream that’s quite educational and covers using specific gums and thickeners. http://underbelly-nyc.blogspot.com/2016/05/ice-cream-series.html The author does a nice job covering such a huge and complex topic – ice cream. I use gums, carrageenan, and various non-egg emulsifiers all the time. They are tricky, but they can really help with texture and how quickly the ice cream melts, and it’s really important to have a scale that measures to a .01g, especially with small batches. As Ruben has probably said, having a spreadsheet to calculate total solids, percentage milkfat, percentage sugars, and the like is essential. That will help in diagnosing problems with the mix. I’ve had crumbly ice cream with too much kappa carrageenan causing a gel to form (kappa is not my first choice of carrageenans), but it sounds like you might be using Jeni’s cornstarch method? Too much starch could cause a problem but I would think it would be gummy and not so much crumbly. You might want to post your recipe for the base mix.
A great reply Jeff. 🙂
Hi Laura!
Thanks for getting in touch! Always great to hear from another ice cream entrepreneur! How are you finding your Carpigiani Labo machine?
Crumbly texture and fast meltdown sound like a very interesting challenge! Right, high overrun can often result in crumbly texture. I suspect that you didn’t have this problem when you were using a domestic machine because of the relatively low overrun that results from the low rpm on domestic machines. Commercial machines have a much higher rpm, which may be causing the high overrun. Can you adjust the rmp on your Carpigiani? If so, try lowering it. Insufficient stabiliser may also be another issue, which may mean that your mix isn’t very viscous. Your mix needs to undergo optimal partial coalescence during freeing to promote small and stable air cells, retard ice crystal growth, and reduce the rate of meltdown. Mix viscosity promotes partial coalescence, with more viscous mixes generally resulting in higher rates of partial coalescence. Partial coalescence is important as it promotes the formation of smaller air cells, which is beneficial for texture, and significantly reduces the rate of meltdown (I’d recommend having a read through my post on partial coalescence if you haven’t already done so). Stabilisers promote a more viscous mix. I’d also highly recommend prolonged heating, at least 30 minutes at around 72°C, to promote partial protein unfolding, which not only increases viscosity, but I’ve found is essential for developing smooth texture. This is quite interesting because you want to promote optimum partial coalescence, which promotes a more voluminous and stable foam. Because you already have a high overrun, my guess is that the air cells in your whipped mix may be too large and unstable, resulting in their collapse and thus a crumbly texture. This is just my guess though.
Another reason for crumbly texture may be low total solids in your mix. Are you able to post your mix composition? I’d recommend increasing the milk fat, not fat-milk-solids, or sugar in your mix. Mixes with a high fat content also tend to melt more slowly, another reason to increase the fat content.
With regard to the high meltdown rate, insufficient partial coalescence may again be the culprit as I suspect that your air cells are large and unstable, resulting in their collapse and a faster meltdown rate. This may be due to too much protein or insufficient emulsifier. What is the protein content of your mix? Try keeping your protein content to around 4%. Any higher, and your mix may be too stable, resulting in less partial coalescence. I’d also recommend increasing your emulsifier to promote a more unstable mix and a higher rate of partial coalescence.
Condensed milk is used for the same reason as skimmed milk powder (to increase the milk solids-not-fat) so I wouldn’t recommend using both. I just read your point about your ice cream being quite icy which confirms my suspicion that your total solids content is too low! You definitely need to take account of reduction if you are heating your mix for a prolonged period of time as this will significantly affect your mix composition.
I don’t currently do recipe consulting work but that may be something I look into when I have some free time. For the time being, I’m more than happy to try and help by offering my opinion as I quite enjoy thinking about the science behind ice cream defects!
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. It would be great to stop by and try some of your ice cream the next time I’m in London.
All the best,
Ruben 🙂
Awesome work and super inspiring. I’m a small entrepreneur in the LED Lighting business but I’ve always wanted to start an ice cream / chocolate business. Your site is an inspiration! Good Luck
Thank you for the kind words Gary! 🙂
Let me know if you have any ice-cream related questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Nothing but successes over here with your strawberry and coffee. Great work!
Quick question: Any experience with mint? I’ve made a peppermint extract and was planning on doing some experimenting, but I thought I’d check in first.
Also, regarding the strawberry balsamic. Very delicious. There tends to be a slight sour-dairy, like yoghurt-ish kind of flavor up front. I’ve tasted this in commercial ice creams before(fruit flavored perhaps). I was wondering what you think might cause it and if I could eliminate it.
My hunch: The balsamic, obviously acid-y sour could be the culprit or perhaps the mixture of acid with the dairy – either the balsamic again or perhaps the vitamin C in the strawberries.
Thanks again.
Hi Evan!
Great to hear the strawberry and coffee turned out well! 🙂 I’d love to get your feedback on either recipe so please do let me know what went well and what you would like to see improved.
I’ve never tried making mint ice cream but that is now on my to-do list. Yes I suspect the sour note in the strawberry balsamic is from the vinegar. Try heating either half or all of the vinegar together with the strawberries instead of adding it after the strawberries have been heated. This should temper the sour note.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben
I am desperately looking for this recipe. Please help out!
Have you ever tried making ice cream using only Whole Buffalo milk (7% fat), Fruit Pulp & Sugar?
I couldn’t believe it when I tried a brand called Natural during my visit to India. They are fruit flavoured ice creams, which are very rich and super creamy unlike any other ice cream I have ever tasted.
The ingredients they use is Buffalo milk, sugar, fruit pulp.
No Eggs, No Cream, No Stabilizers & No Emulsifiers.
Is it possible to prepare ice cream with only the above mentioned ingredients ONLY?
When I tried it out at home with 7% whole Buffalo milk, the results were poor. Icy mouthfeel. Where am I going wrong?
“Should I reduce the milk to half on low flame so that the fat % doubles.?”
Please share a recipe on how I can make ice cream using the above ingredients.
Hi there Eric!
Thanks for getting in touch! I’ve never tried using Buffalo milk myself, come to think of it, I’ve never actually seen Buffalo milk here in the U.K before.
Yes I think you could probably make creamy ice cream with just those ingredients. I suspect that Natural have an advantage over you in that they probably use a commercial ice cream machine, which will produce smaller ice crystals than your domestic machine and creamier texture. Because of the shorter freezing times on commercial machines, commercial ice cream mixes require less fat than homemade mixes. You could try using liquid nitrogen or dry ice to make your ice cream at home. This will result in faster freezing times, smaller ice crystals, and smoother texture.
You could also try increasing the total solids content in your mix by increasing the amount of sugar and fruit pulp you use. Try to get around 54% total solids content in your mix. Are you using ready-made fruit pulp or making it yourself? If the latter, you could try heating the fruit for longer to evaporate more water and increase total solids. You could indeed reduce the milk to increase the fat and total solids content; this is something I would highly recommend. If you do try this, try not to heat the milk above about 72°C and heat all the ingredients together. It may take a while to reduce.
I’ve never tried making ice cream with just the ingredients you mentioned so sadly don’t have a recipe. It will be a lot of trial and error on your part!
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Ruben,
Thanks a ton. Very comprehensive answer. Answered most of the doubts in my mind. Lots of love and gratitude:)
🙂
Hi Ruben
Do you have a review of the Gaggia machine, would be good to hear your comments…
Thanks
Peter
Hi there Peter!
Thanks for getting in touch! I haven’t tried the Gaggia machine yet but it is now on my to-do list 🙂 I’ll try and post a review once I’ve had a play around.
All the best,
Ruben
hello…I have started a small ice cream business from home, so far i have ICE 20, ICE 30 and one ICE 100. Am planning to get Lello Musso now. I wanted to know that how much is the need for using stabilizers or stuff like xanthum etc bc its VERY HOT here in Pakistan and i cant do ice cream delivery bc they melt very quickly so was told by someone to use stabilizers. What are they and which ones r best?
Also, sometimes my batch hardly whips us and makes barely a quart so becomes very cost uneffective!
what may be the reason for that? thanks for all your help!
Hi again Umber!
Stabilisers are used primarily to increase ice cream shelf-life and reduce the rate of ice crystal growth during storage. This means that your ice cream will keep its smooth consistency for longer. Have a read through my post on how long does homemade ice cream last int he freezer. As long as you have a freezer capable of getting the temperature down to around -25°C and the temperature doesn’t fluctuate, I don’t see a need for stabilisers. keeping your ice cream at a constant and low temperature during delivery is crucial for maintaining quality so my advice would be to invest in a reliable freezer that you can use for your deliveries.
You could try adding more egg yolks or emulsifiers and increasing the fat content to increase the amount of air that is whipped into your mix. Also, don’t heat your mix above around 75°C for a prolonged period of time during the pasteurisation stage as this will impair the proteins’ foaming ability.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions and good luck with your business!
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Great work! You are interesting, educational, and inspiring.
I had a question regarding your approach to flavoring in your ice cream recipes. If it is covered elsewhere in the site and I’ve missed it, a redirect link would be much appreciated.
I’m trying to better understand how to tweak my flavors – How to make my fruit or coffee flavor more intense. Simply add more? – but at what point will I disrupt the chemistry of my base? I don’t want to throw off moisture levels or make it too sweet or icy.
Is there a rule of thumb when preparing your flavorings? Minimum volume with maximum flavor?
Any insight in this area would be great.
Keep it up.
Hi there Evan!
Thanks for reaching out! 🙂 That’s a very good question. The milk fat percentage has an effect on flavour intensity, or the initial burst of flavour. A mix high in milk fat is likely to need more flavouring as the milk fat will somewhat subdue and slow the release of flavour, but will leave it lingering for longer. Have you considered using tinctures, or alcohol extracts? I use these to provide an initial burst of flavour and find that they enhance overall flavour. Have a look at my coffee recipe. The time you leave the flavour infusing your mix and the temperature will also play a role in the flavour intensity.
I guess trial and error is the best way to go. I’ve found that for a 1000g mix, about 150g or so of nut pastes works well. You can also add flavourings prior to freezing if you’re concerned with icy texture. I haven’t yet played around much with fruit flavours.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Reuben,
Just discovered your site while researching new ice cream recipes – what a fantastic resource! As a scientist myself, I love the fact that all of your articles are well researched and referenced, explaining the why as well as the how. Keep going, will definitely try some of your ice cream next time we’re down in oxford!
Cheers,
Stuart
Hi there Stuart!
Thanks for reaching out! 🙂 Hope the blog helps and I look forward to seeing you in Oxford when the shop is finally opened!
All the best,
Ruben
Ruben,
First, many thanks for all the hard work clearly evident throughout your wonderful website. I recently lucked upon a used Lello Polo. Wonderful machine that is producing some great ice cream. However, as you noted in your review, the dasher is the weak link in that it doesn’t actually scrape the bowl reducing heat transfer. So I have begun to consider making an improved dasher. Any thoughts?
Hi there Rick!
Thanks for getting in touch! I think making an improved dasher sounds like a great idea. My advice would be to have it pushed firmly against the side and bottom of the bowl by a spring, or be as close to them as possible. Have a look at the spring-loaded blades on the Emery Thompson machines. The blades should also be sharp to promote efficient scraping. My only concern is whether the motor that rotates the dasher will cope with the added stress.
Please do let me know how you get on.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben
Thank you so much for sharing your experience , i start my ice cream small factory with Mark Batch freezer 40-50 model , and pasteurize with same brand model 55 .
my quotation i want increase my over-run , do you have any recommendation for that
Hi there Walid!
Thanks for getting in touch! I haven’t heard of the Mark 40-50 batch freezer model before; how are you getting on with it? Have a read through my post on air bubbles in ice cream for information on increasing overrun.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
I am Shreya from India. Firstly I would like to tell you this blog is very informative for aspiring ice cream makers. I can call you cute King of Ice cream (KOFC).
I am planning to start ice cream business. But currently not sure how to make a start. Should I start up with small chain and then move towards making it bigger and reach more people. I want to work more on giving people an healthy ice cream as more and more people are moving towards sugar free diet these days. Could you please let me know if I can give a try on Dairy free and sugar ice cream and for this I have done some research. I need your guidance – if I can start with coconut milk for cream and stevia as a sweetener. Will this work – please help. Also let me know if you could give a try on this one so I hope you also can help health conscious people enjoy their ice cream treat guilt free. Will wait for your comments.
Thank you for your time. Eat healthy Stay healthy 🙂
Hi there Shreya!
Thanks for getting in touch and a big hello to you in India! Cute King of Ice Cream sounds good to me. Yes my opinion would be to start small and then grow your business as you get more customers. You could start cheaply with a domestic ice cream machine and sell small quantities of your ice cream to restaurants/cafes and food festivals. I think this would be a great way for you to learn about ice cream production and get feedback from your customers. You can then buy more equipment as your business grows. Whether you start small or big will also depend on your budget.
I haven’t tried making dairy and sugar free ice cream myself but it’s definitely something I want to research and start making when I get some free time. I’d recommend having a look on journalofdairyscience.com for journals on using alternative sources of fat and sweetener. I’d also recommend buying a copy of Ice Cream by Goff and Hartel as this book has a lot of information on ice cream production and alternative sources of fat and sweetener. The best way to perfect your coconut and stevia ice cream will be through research and a lot of trial and error!
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions and good luck with your business! 🙂
All the best,
Ruben
hi, My name is Michel and i am an aspiring ice cream maker in WACO Texas. i graduate college with a degree in biology. just like you i soon found out that county bugs or stay in lab for hours every day was not for me. i have been cooking for years and i have soon realized that cooking has become more than a passion for me. i started to make ice cream for myself as well as my friends. getting feedback from them make me realized that i could actually start a start up from this. unfortunately i was little to no knowledge on how to start one and what is would take to have one running. through my research on how to perfectionate my recipes. i stumbled on your website.
it might be a long shot but a person once told me it wont hurt to ask. I am seeking for mentor-ship to help me understand the science of making ice cream.
i understand you schedule might now allow you to do this. but i am willing to learn, listen and work
thank you for your time
Hi there Michel!
Thanks for getting in touch! Great to hear that you are thinking of starting your own business. Sure I’d be happy to help if you want to send some questions my way.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Congrats on your site – its a great resource…well done also with your business ventures, they are great!
I am looking for some advice on an R&D machine I want to buy.
Basically we make a soy based ice cream, low solids and low fat formulation, so its tough to freeze fast! In the past we had both continuous and batch machines (commercial size) and the continuous could easily achieve good over-run.
I want to achieve 100% over-run but need to do this with a small batch machine – ideally a home size machine so we can do small 1L-2L batches for sampling/R&D. I know most machines are too slow (beater speed) to achieve above 50%….so I thought the KitchenAid attachment was my only option….although it seems a bit unreliable.
Any other compressor style machines you would recommend that can achieve 80% or more over-run?
I look forward to your early advice.
Thanks,
Michael
Hi there Michael!
Thanks for getting in touch! That’s a good, and tricky, question. I don’t know of any domestic machine that gives 80-100% overrun with a short freezing time. The Kitchenaid is probably the one that would give the highest overrun but I agree that it isn’t the most reliable machine, certainly not the European version anyway. This might be your best bet though if high overrun is a priority.
Have you looked at the Emery Thompson CB-200? I don’t think it’s able to achieve an 80-100% overrun because I know the dasher speed is set to gelato/premium ice cream and can’t be changed. You’d be able to freeze 2-3 litre batches in about 10 minutes though, which would be beneficial for your low fat/solids mix as it would help promote small ice crystals. You could also try the Lello Musso Pola 5030 for short freezing times, but this only incorporates about 30% air. The Pacojet has an extremely short freezing time but, again, a very low overrun.
You certainly haven’t made life easier by going with a low solids/fat mix and a high overrun! I think you might need to compromise on the overrun if you’re using a domestic ice cream machine. You could also have a look into pre-whipping your mix, where you agitate your mix with a blender before adding it to your ice cream machine, to get a more voluminous foam, although I don’t know whether you’d achieve 80-100 overrun.
I hope that helps. Let me know how you get on and if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi, Ruben!
I am a 19 year old Food Science student from the Philippines. Can you give me an advice on how to start a ice cream business at home? Me and my mom is planning to buy a CuisineArt ice cream maker like yours. We are also planning to sell the ice creams by cups instead of by cones so that other stores can sell it also.
Thanks!
Hi there Harold!
A big hello to you in the Philippines! Sure, what kind of thing do you need advice on? I’d be happy to answer your questions.
Good luck to you and your Mum with your ice cream business!
All the best,
Ruben
HI , This is Raj from india . I will call you angel of ice creams (AOIC) . I am about to start new nitrogen ice cream business .was searching information and was quite stressed .your website is simply amazing .
can you suggest a ice cream premix formula for pan fried or liquid nitrogen icecream also cold stone we want to offer..
Thanks a ton at least I am bit familiar about technical terms
Hi there Raj!
Thanks for getting in touch and a big hello to you in India! Wow, Angel of ice cream sounds good! I’ve never tried using liquid nitrogen before so don’t have a suitable recipe. I know that the considerably shorter freezing time using liquid nitrogen produces smaller ice crystals and so you will be able to use a mix with a lower fat content and probably a lower total solids content. You could try starting with my vanilla ice cream recipe and then reducing the fat content until you’re happy with the results. I’d also recommend buying a copy of Ice Cream by Goff and Hartel if you’re starting a business. I think this book will help a lot.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions and good luck with your business!
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
A quick question if you may,
I’ve been studying gelato recently and have read about using milk powder in the base. My question is Does it make a difference using Skim milk powder or Whole milk powder? also by adding this do i need to incorporate more egg yolks?
Hi there Brett!
Thanks for getting in touch. Yes it will make a slight difference because of the increased fat content in the whole milk powder. You will have to take this into account when formulating your mix. Do you mean by adding milk powder or by adding whole milk powder with regard to your egg yolks question? The increased protein content from the addition of milk powder will increase mix stability and may reduce partial coalescence, which is bad, depending on how much powder you include. You will have to counter this with the addition of egg yolk or another emulsifier to help destabilise the mix. Whether you have to add more yolks will depend on your current egg yolk content. I use about 4.4% egg yolk solids in my ice cream mix. I think you’d find my post on partial coalescence of the fat emulsion helpful.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have another questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
thanks for the reply, I had assumed that it had something to do with the fat content, but wasn’t completely sure. thank you for clarifying that for me. I do have lots of questions lol! I have been reading countless books and material on ice cream/gelato, your site included, and I might add that I found yours to be the most useful. I am trying to understand the formula used for gelato. most say 4-8 % fat 16-22 % sugar 36-43 % solids, with that I’ve been trying to figure out what the percentages of my recipe are. I know that converting the ingredients into grams works best for me, and that dividing the total number of fat grams by 1000 and then multiplying by 100 will give me the total percentage of fat in the recipe, but how do I no what is considered a solid? take milk for example do I need to figure out what percentage is water? and say tapioca starch is that a solid as well?
this is the base recipe I’ve come up with, which I’m tying to figure out percentages for ?
490 grams Whole milk
230 grams heavy cream
200 grams sugar
4 egg yolks
23 grams skim milk powder
30 grams tapioca starch
33 grams light corn syrup
Any help would be much appreciated,
thank for for taking the time to read this
sincerely
Brett
Hi again Brett!
I haven’t spent any time researching gelato making just yet so might not be the best person to ask. Goff and Hartel, in their book Ice Cream, state a typical gelato formula might contain 8% milk fat, 7.5% milk solids-not-fat, 16% sugar, and optionally up to 4% egg yolks solids. I’d also recommend doing some research on the effect of different sugars on gelato texture. Have a look on journalofdairyscience.org for some journals on sugar in gelato; I think I remember seeing some on there. That’s a very good question; I’ve never used tapioca starch or light corn syrup in my recipes and so don’t know how they fall in to the composition totals. I’ll send you through some information shortly to your e-mail address, which you might find helpful for calculating your mix percentages.
Hope it helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Reuben, I love the site and your ice cream recipes. I was wondering if you might be willing to share your raw excel file or formulas so I may tinker with it? As a geology student, I’m hoping to use the scanning electron microscope in our labs to examine the crystal growth of water (mostly because I use liquid nitrogen to make my ice cream at home and I am wondering what fat content I can aim for and produce a similar result as your base frozen in a high quality, compressor machine).
Also, I am tinkering with a carrot ice cream and was wondering for your toughts on the best way to incorporate a carrot flavour – I was thinking about substituting some of the non-fat skim milk with carrot juice. Should I add skim milk powder to make up for any non-fat solids in the skim milk? Alternatively, I was thinking of sautéing carrots in butter (for their fat soluble flavour compounds) and adding this and adjusting the cream content so overall butter/milk fats ~19.5%. The third option would be to steep shredded carrots in the milk as it is heated and held at 72C. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Hi there Daniel!
Thanks for getting in touch! Sure, I’ll send through a copy of my excel spreadsheet to your e-mail address shortly; let me know if you need a hand with it. Just bear in mind that evaporation from prolonged heating will (if you heat your mix in an open pan) will increase the composition percentages; I haven’t yet included these calculations in the spreadsheet.
Liquid nitrogen sounds cool and is something I haven’t yet had the time to try. Have a look at Smitten Ice Cream if you haven’t already done so. Carrot ice cream has been on my to-do list for a while now! Have a look at this recipe for carrot cake on chef steps for inspiration https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/flourless-carrot-cake. Also try searching for carrot cake/dessert recipes by Heston Blumenthal. Yes I think it would be a good idea to add skimmed milk powder if you’re reducing the milk amount, or you could try omitting the powder and reducing the mix through prolonged heating to increase the protein content. Milk and cream by themselves don’t provide enough protein in an ice cream mix.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions and do let me know how you get on with the carrot ice cream.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and passion with us.
I would like to setting up a patisserie company (I’m a French patisserie “geek”) but I would like to start in small and first with an ice cream. My question is could you help me with your experience of selling at the markets? If you could find a time for this, maybe?
If you are interested in the patisserie ( for winter) I would be more than happy to help you with that. I can work with a chocolate, bake Macarons, Éclairs etc.
I hope, I’m not bothering you too much.
Thank you and have a lovely day
Martina
Hi again Martina!
Salut to you in France! A patisserie company sounds great. Sure, I’d be happy to share my experiences of selling ice cream at markets with you. Let me know which questions you have. You can help me by letting me eat some of your delicious cakes when I visit France 🙂
All the best to you,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Thank you for your reply. I’m not living in France (sorry that I confused you ), I’m living in U.K. (Bedfordshire).
I would like to start my business from home so first I need to let approve my kitchen. Do you perhaps know of I need 2 sinks or one sink and dishwasher will do it? Do you think that a juice pasteuriser will be good for the milk and eggs pasteurisation? Something like this http://www.vigopresses.co.uk/Catalogue/Pasteurisers/Stainless-Steel-Pasteuriser-96400 ?
Martina
Hi again Martina!
Oops; Bedfordshire is just as nice as France! I have just one sink in my kitchen; I don’t know whether Bedfordshire County Council will require you to have 2. Does that juice pasteuriser also stir the mix? You might find that the egg yolks will curdle if the mix isn’t stirred. Have you looked into using a magnetic stirring hot plate as a pasteuriser? http://www.ika.com/Products-Lab-Eq/Magnetic-Stirrers-Hot-Plate-Lab-Mixer-Stirrer-Blender-csp-188/ There are some cheap used ones on e-bay and you could also get an overhead stirrer if you are planning on making larger batches.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
I wanted to post a message but I’ve been blocked. Can you help me with this? Thank you.
Martina
Hi Martina!
Hmm, do you mean you’ve been blocked from posting in the forum or messages in posts? I have a spam filter so maybe that is blocking your messages. I’ll have a quick look to see if everything is working correctly.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Thanks for providing such a great resource for people wanting to learn more about the intricacies of ice cream! I have a question about doing farmers markets if you have the time.
My sister and I are in the process of setting up a dairy free ice cream company and want to do a kickstarter campaign later in the year. Ahead of the campaign we are looking to do farmers markets to promote what we are doing, but do not want to fork out for a trike and freezer. I was wondering if you have had any experience of using cooler boxes filled with ice/ dry ice/ freezer boards to keep the ice cream frozen for the day? As we are looking to sell tubs of ice cream we will not be scooping so thought this could be a feasible option.
Any thoughts on this would be a huge help! There isn’t much info on this sort of thing out there and you seem to be a thrifty guy with a huge knowledge base.
All the best,
Joel
Hi there Joel!
Thanks for getting in touch! Great to hear that you guys are setting up your own business. There is a lot of great information in Ice Cream by Goff & Hartel on alternatives to milk fat and milk protein that I think would help you guys.
I highly recommend getting some farmers markets under your belts before you guys launch your kickstarter campaign. I think it would be an excellent idea to take as much video and pictures of you guys selling at the markets and use that footage in your kickstarter video.
I don’t have any experience of using cooler boxes at markets myself but know it can be done; I saw a guy in a small market in north London using just a cool box to sell his ice cream from. I do remember his ice cream being relatively warm and melting quite rapidly but it was a warm day and I did buy it late afternoon. I think dry ice would be the best, but most expensive, bet as this would keep your ice cream coldest for the longest period of time. You would need to play around with amounts and positioning the dry ice as it will likely make your ice cream too cold if it comes in direct contact with the side of your ice cream containers. I don’t know how long or how cold ice or freezer boards would keep your ice cream cold but I don’t think it should be a problem if you guys only intend on selling for a few hours and don’t have that much product to sell. Try and keep the cool box under an umbrella and out of the sun as that makes a huge difference.
If you guys are looking to sell quite a bit of ice cream, then I would recommend buying just a small cheap used chest freezer, a camping battery, and an inverter; this really isn’t a difficult or expensive option to go with and will guarantee the quality of your ice cream for a full trading day.
Whichever option you go with, you will learn so much by just getting out and selling so do give it a go!
I hope that helps. Let me know if you guys have any other questions and good luck with your business.
All the best,
Ruben
Amazingly helpful Ruben!
Thank you so much. I think the chest freezer will be the way to go. Will also check out the book you recommended. I would love to ask you about your Kickstarter campaign as i’m sure you learnt a lot from it. Any thing you will be doing differently for the next time? Would love to chat with you about it if you had the time, but appreciate your very busy.
Many thanks again Ruben and thanks for having the most informative ice cream website on the internet!
Hi again Joel!
More than happy to hold a skype chat or google hang out this week as there are certainly things that I would have done differently in my kickstarter project.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
That would be fantastic! I have sent you a skype contact request. Very flexible this week so when ever is convenient for you. Thank you so much!
Look forward to speaking to you soon,
Joel
Wow Ruben, what a great site. I have learned details about making ice cream that I never would even have thought about before. With all your knowledge and expertise regarding the science of making ice cream AND your knowledge about what makes a good ice cream machine maybe someday you can develop your own ice cream maker. It seems to me that most of these ice cream machines could use some kind of silicone flexible edge (like Kitchenaid has put on the blade of their stand mixers) on the edge of the “dasher” to help scrape that layer of frozen ice cream off the side of the container. It’s all about the ice crystals and the techniques and hardware to keep them small. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. You are already a success because you found your passion and you are immersed in it.
Hi there Kurt!
Thanks for getting in touch and thank you for the kind words! I hope the blog helps. 🙂 Designing and building an ice cream machine is definitely something I’m considering for the future! Yes some kind of extension on the dasher, or a different design, to scrape the side of the bowl would definitely be welcomed. My only concern is whether the motor on domestic machines would be able to cope with the increased stress.
Do get in touch if you have any questions.
All the best to you,
Ruben
I have modified the dasher on a Cuisinart ICE-100, adding thin silicon scrapers to the sides and bottom of the dasher. After many experiments I have found that it can reduce freezing time however the added friction against the side walls of the canister seems to increase ice crystal size. I gave up on using them because the texture always seems better with the stock dasher.
Hi there Jeff!
That sounds very interesting! How did you get the silicon scrapers on to the dasher? Did you make them yourself? It’s interesting that they produce more friction. Increasing the dasher speed can produce more heat in the freezer bowl, which melts more of the ice crystals, but I’m surprised that just adding the silicon scrapers had the same effect.
Well I’m making an assumption that the scrapers are creating enough friction to cause faster recrystallization of ice crystals and ultimately a smaller number of large crystals (page 85 in Chris Clarke’s book). But I’m not sure how to reconcile that with shorter freeze times using the scrapers. My experiments suggest better texture with the default dasher, but I’ve only made about a dozen batches with them and there could be other variables I’m missing. I think the fastest freeze I’ve had is 6 minutes with one cup of mix. I get pretty good results with short freeze (churn) times in these tiny batches but if I make a pint of mix then the churn time increases to 14-16 minutes and noticeably icier. Ultimately these little compressors just aren’t powerful enough to freeze the mix quickly enough or to a low enough temp. 24F is about as low as I can get a mix which is not quite low enough.
I cut the scrapers from thin silicon cutting boards, they are about 1mm thick, then drilled holes in the dasher and used small stainless steel nuts and bolts. The bolts have a thin rounded head, truss head screws. Thick screw heads would touch the side of the canister but these don’t. I’d post a picture but it doesn’t look like I can here.
Yes the freezing times will get considerably longer with increased mix sizes. Have you tried increasing the fat and total solids contents to compensate for the increased freezing times with larger mixes? I’d love to see a picture of your modified dasher if you wouldn’t mind posting it on the facebook page or e-mailing it to me rubenporto at icecreamscience dot com 🙂
Hello Ruben
Firstly, thank you for putting a great on-line resource together, especially for a novice such as myself!
I have just completed the 4 day ice cream course at Reading University and am looking to start up in a small, controlled way with a view to developing an artisan company supplying local restaurants, bars etc.
I would initially like to develop my existing flavours using my new-found formulation knowledge gained from the course and am looking for a decent batch freezer to use for further R&D. You seem to have a liking for the Emery Thompson CB-200. It looks like it could be a perfect fit for me. There doesn’t appear to be a supplier in the UK. I have emailed them asking if there is, and if there is a support network in place here. In the meantime, I would be grateful if you can you tell me how and where you are planning to purchase one
Thanks
Neil
Hi there Neil!
Thanks for getting in touch! Great to hear you did the course at Reading! What did you think of it? I looked into it last year and am still considering giving it a go. There is also the one in Ireland, run by the legend that is Professor Doug Goff, that I hope to go on.
Yes I think the CB-200 is a great machine to start off with. I got in touch directly with the owner of the company for a quote and will be buying directly from them. I think his e-mail address is on their site but I can send it through if you can’t find it. I don’t know of a UK based distributor.
Hope that helps. Do keep in touch and let me know how you get on with your CB-200!
All the best,
Ruben
Hello Ruben. Thanks for the info re the CB200. I’m going to hold off from a purchase for the moment. I need to work on my formulations before scaling up. The course in Reading was very good, if a little fragmented. Also, I think I would have got a lot more out of it if I had had some prior knowledge. Some of the chemistry and maths for a complete beginner was a bit daunting! I’m reading The Science of Ice Cream (Chris Clarke) at the moment which is cementing much of what we learnt on the course. It would have been preferable to read it before the course though. I’ve just purchased a Musso 4080 and Robot Coupe stick blender for mixing during pasteurisation. I’ve got a long way to go, but getting there steadily!
Hello again Ruben
I
am looking to purchase a small portable freezer that will chill to -18 to transport samples to prospective clients. Can you recommend one? I’ve looked at the Waeco range, but they really appear to be designed for camping etc, so the storage space is not ideal i.e. not uniform, but with space for bottles etc which I obviously don’t need.
Thanks
Neil
Hi again Neil!
I got a small LEC used freezer off ebay that I use to transport small samples. It’s very small (I’ve forgotten the capacity but think it’s about 18 litres) so fits nicely in my car, gets the temperature down to -18°C and seems to do the trick. I connect up to a camping battery; I’m not sure whether you can run it off a car battery. I also use a larger chest freezer, by a Danish company cold Tefcold that gets the temperature down to around-25°C, when I sell at festivals. Again I use a camping battery for that.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hey Neil if you’re still looking for a portable freezer Engel is the best brand without buying a portable medial freezer.
Hi Ruben!
I have just stumbled across your fabulous website whilst reading reviews for various ice cream machines (I think I’ve settled on the Cusinart ICE 30 after watching your videos!) Anyway my question was, in order to sell homemade ice cream to the UK public, is it sufficient with the Food Standards Agency etc to carry out pasturisation manually using a thermometer, or do you need a specialised pasturiser? Super snazzy pasturisers seem to be ££££, and when a business is starting up that seems like a very large investment! The other thing was, if you are creating a product free from stabilisers and emulsifiers, does it withstand the pasturising process ok or is it necessary to add things in.
If you are able to answer these questions I would be most grateful, I have not been able to find suitable resources so far on the internet!
Kind regards
Rhiannah
Hi there Rhiannah!
Thanks for getting in touch! Good choice; you can’t go wrong with the ICE-30 🙂 For my local food standards agency, it is indeed sufficient to manually pasteurise a mix with a thermometer without the use of an industrial pasteuriser (you may want to check with your local FSA in case they take a different approach). Pasteurisers are waaay overpriced in my opinion and unnecessary. Have a look at a magnetic stirring hot plate with an overhead stirrer as a more economical, and just as good, alternative.
No it isn’t necessary to add stabilisers or emulsifiers and there are no problems during pasteurisation with mixes where they are omitted; I’ve never used either in any of my ice cream. Egg yolks act similarly to emulsifiers and denaturing proteins by prolonged heating produces similar results to added stabilisers.
Hope that helps. Get in touch if you have any other questions and good luck with your homemade ice cream business!
All the best,
Ruben
Ruben,
Everyone adores when I make your roasted banana ice cream. Do you have an equally successful chocolate ice cream recipe you could point me to? I tried some and got poor reviews.
Thanks,
Lynn
Hi Lynn!
Thanks for getting in touch! Great to hear the banana ice cream is going down well 🙂 Use the recipe and directions for vanilla bean ice cream with the ingredients from the dark chocolate recipe: http://icecreamscience.com/chocolate-ice-cream-recipe/
I’ll be upgrading the blog in the next couple of months so should hopefully have a completed chocolate ice cream recipe.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any problems.
All the best,
Ruben
How do you square being scientific with using organic ingredients? Has science yet found anything wrong with non-organic milk and cream? You seem to love experimentation so I’m curious if you’ve run some double-blind tests showing organic ingredients affect the outcome? Or have you found they don’t but the profit is better with the organic tag?
Hi again SwissFrank!
I use science in the preparation of my mix to develop truly exceptional texture. I use organic milk and cream because I think the flavour is often better and I do think there is a premium in using organic ingredients. My ice cream is also a reflection of my preferences when it comes to food. I like the line ‘make food that you love to eat’.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Great info on ice cream! Do you have an email address? I have some questions about your magnetic stirrer. Thanks.
Hi there Joon!
Thanks for getting in touch. You can send me an e-mail at rubenporto at icecreamscience dot com.
All the best,
Ruben
Hello. I just purchased a Lello Musso Pola 5030 Dessert Maker and wondered if you could recommend a standard ice cream base for this type of machine.
I’d love to get your thoughts on how the following recipe might work:
For 1 quart of ice cream – 2 cups heavy cream, 1 cup whole milk, 125 grams of sugar, 1 gram kosher salt, 8 large egg yolks
Many thanks!
Hi there Nedergal!
Thanks for getting in touch. Great to hear you got yourself a Lello 5030. How are you finding it? I would recommend looking at my vanilla bean ice cream recipe as a standard recipe. You can then substitute in other flavours instead of the vanilla.
How much milk fat is in the cream that you are using? If you send through the weight in grams of the ingredients you are using along with the milk fat in the cream and milk, I will take a look at your recipe.
I hope that helps.
All the best,
Ruben
I’m loving the Lello 5030. I was using the Cuisinart before, which produced great ice cream, but the Lello is producing the smoothest texture by far! I’ve used your vanilla bean recipe for the Cuisinart and it worked great.
We are opening a small pizza place in our little town so we bought the Lello for a more consistent ice cream.
We are hoping to use a non-fussy recipe, one that is easy for whoever is prepping in the kitchen. I was trying to avoid using milk powder.
Whole Milk:
Serving Size 1 cup (240 mL)
Amount Per Serving
Calories 150 Calories from Fat 70
% Daily Value *
Total Fat 8g
12%
Saturated Fat 5g
25%
Heavy Cream:
Nutrition Information
Serving Size 1 tbsp (15 mL)
Amount Per Serving
Calories 50 Calories from Fat 50
% Daily Value *
Total Fat 5g
8%
Saturated Fat 3.5g
17%
Thanks again for taking the time and sharing your knowledge!
–Shannon
Hi again Shannon!
Great to hear you are opening a pizza place! My recipes are quite labour intensive so might not be the best if you are looking for a recipe that is quick to make. The addition of skim milk powder in my recipes not only improves texture but also reduces the heating time.
8% fat in your cream seems very low; it is usually between 30-50& fat. Is this the percentage of fat in the cream or the percentage of fat in relation to your daily recommended intake? The same for the fat percentage in your milk as 8% seems quite high. Please confirm these two and i’ll pop together a recipe for you.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
I tried posting here a little while back. I’m actually a Ruben myself, and had an ice cream business called Ruben’s Ice Cream (you can see me on the first picture on Google when you search Ruben’s Ice Cream). I hope it’s all going well. I love the science side of things – I’m actually a science teacher myself too.
Best of luck in the future.
Ruben
Hi there Ruben!
Thanks for getting in touch! It’s not every day that I come across another Ruben. The fact that you also had an ice cream business makes this an even more interesting encounter!
Are you based in the U.K? Are you still running your business?
All the best,
Ruben
Hi. I’m no longer in the UK, and the business is sadly no more, so you can hold the beacon alone as Ruben, the Ice Cream Man.
In fact, I had the domain rubensicecream.co.uk, which you would be welcome to, but i don’t really know how to recover it.
Keep fighting the good fight.
Ruben
Hi again Ruben! (that sounds weird)
Sorry to hear Ruben’s ice cream is no more. I might look into that domain name in the future.
All the best and good luck with your next venture,
Ruben
sooooo glad to find this site. I am .. and always be, the ice cream empathic.. i live to enjoy those stories of love of this iced passion. sigh..
just bought the Smart Scoop, sadly before reading All the reviews, but we will see what we will see, eh. one of the other sites mentioned the Whynter 200ls , what’s your take? plus, no matter how diligent i was in my search, I could not find a place to buy a second bowl or paddle, odd doncha think?
well, looking forward to reading and basking in your wisdom!
Thanx
blueangeldiver@usa.com
Blue
Hi there Blue!
Thanks for getting in touch! How are you getting on with your Smart Scoop? I got some very good results out of it when I gave it a try. I haven’t tried the Whynter machines as they are not yet available over here in the U.K.
Hope the blog helps.
All the best,
Ruben
Hello Ruben
I have been browsing for gelato-recipe online and found your website, what is your view on Italian gelato and American ice cream?
I have been living in Florence for a few months now and tried many gelaterie and I noticed that some gelaterie; their gelato has more icier taste ( I dont mean sorbetto ), the texture/consistency is quite different, it’s less creamy(thick) and watery.
I wonder if it has something to do with the stabiliser their use?
Thank you for making a very educational and resourceful website!
I hope to visit your ice cream shop in Oxford and sample some ( or all ) of your creations this November when I make a stopover in London 🙂
Paul
Hi again Paul!
Italian gelato has a lower fat and air content than ice cream, which I think tends to make a sandier texture. Because of the lower fat content, gelato tends not to be as rich or sickly as ice cream. The icier texture that you mention will probably have a lot to do with the lower fat content and higher water content, not the stabiliser. Stabilisers generally tend to make a thicker gummier gelato.
The ice cream shop sadly won’t be open this year but I hope I’ll be able to invite you to the shop for a tasting next year!
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben!
Thank you for all the useful information! I have a dream of also opening a Ice cream shop in my town. It looks like farmers markets, local grocery stores and events are where I will start out until I raise enough funds to open a shop. Your story is very inspirational and relatable! I look forward to checking in for updates on your progress and recipes. Good luck on your adventure!
Sincerely,
Jenna
Salem, Oregon
USA
Hi there Jenna!
Thanks for getting in touch! Great to hear you are starting your own business. Do keep in touch and let me know if you have any questions.
All the best to you,
Ruben
Apologies – I get it now. Yolks might contain 27% fat but this still adds up to a small percentage of the total mix. Thanks for your reply!
Kind regards
Kim
🙂
That’s strange. When I look up the percentage fat of egg yolk on the internet I get 27%. I appreciate your source must be correct from the perspective of ice cream making but it does seem a large difference.
Kim
Do you have any lower fat ice cream recipes without eggs? I do not like the mouth feel of the eggs.
Here is a recipe for vanilla ice cream from Heston Blumenthal that doesn’t use eggs but a lot of cream. Without either eggs or fat I don’t think you can get ice cream. http://www.insearchofheston.com/2013/04/how-to-make-hestons-vanilla-ice-cream-recipe/
Liz, Don’t mean to hijack the blog but just thought you should see this recipe by Giorgio Locatelli – I think it answers your question completely – little cream and no eggs! http://cookalmostanything.blogspot.com/2008/01/milk-ice-cream.html
Thanks for a very interesting web site. Why do you ignore the percentage fat content of the egg yolks in your ingredient tables? Thanks
Hi there Kim!
Thanks for getting in touch. That’s a very good question. You generally need a change of 1% in the fat content for it to have a noticeable effect on texture. In the majority of recipes, egg yolks will contribute less than 0.5% fat and so the fat is very unlikely to have an effect on texture. Have a look at the section on formulating your own mix in Ice Cream by Goff and Hartel if you are interested in formulating your own mixes.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hey Rubén, saw this on kickstarter and thought it might interest you:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236181632/iscream-smart-double-flavour-ice-cream-maker
Hi Scotty!
Looks interesting but a bit gimmicky. Thanks for sharing! 🙂
Hi Ruben my names Julian, you have a very good website here, I have learnt a lot! I’m a little disappointed you don’t have my favorite English ice cream recipes on here like: Honeycomb Crunch, English Toffee, Clotted Cream and Lemon Meringue. Also I’m interested in your opinion on ice cream homogenisation. I have read you get much creamier ice cream if you homogenise ice cream after the heating process. Thanks Julian !!!
Hi there Julian!
Thanks for getting in touch. English toffee definitely sounds like one I need to put on my to-make list. Have you looked at my very British Lemon Curd ice cream recipe?
Yes you’re right that you do get a creamier texture if you homogenise your mix; there is a good section in Ice Cream by Goff and Hartel on this that I would recommend. I haven’t tried homogenising myself as I don’t have the budget for a decent homogeniser yet. Have you tried homogenising your own mixes?
All the best,
Ruben
Hi thanks for the reply I know you’re very busy! No I haven’t homogenised a mix yet. Are you looking at buying a mechanical or a pressure homogeniser? I don’t have much space so I haven’t found a pressure homogeniser that’s small enough that keeps the 72c temperature while homogenising.
No I haven’t tried Lemon Curd, I will soon.
Cheers Julian
hi ruben,
i’ve learned a lot reading your site. Thank you. My questions: it sounds like jeni’s and maybe bi-rite use skim milk that they boil? Yet Jeni’s lists whole milk in her home recipe book. Is this because home cooks may not be able to evaporate enough water, do you think, so the increase in fat of whole milk could offset the water content in improving final texture (again, at home). Have you tried the boil method with your scale to determine how much water is lost? Like you, I am loathe to use skim milk powder, but also do not want to stir/steam for an hour per batch. Do commercial pasteurizers evaporate more water in less time, do you know? (maybe thats why vat pasteurizers are so expensive?). I guess Ill have to get a scale. Also, where can I find the composition of food (not nutritional content)? I want to know the solid, water, fat weight and percent of everything (fruit, cocoa, dark choc, milk, choc, etc). It seems thats the only way to tinker with a recipe depending on ingredients to maintain percentages. For example, if my base – however I create it – is 20% fat, 10% MSNF, etc, I want to be able to adjust it for every recipe that increases fat % or decreases water %. Right? So Id need a master list of all compositions, but I cant find one. Thanks again.
Oh, and it would be great if, for those people who request talking to you via email, you held the conversations here or in the forum so we could all benefit and so you dont have to repeat yourself
Thanks again!!
Jessica
Hi there Jessica!
Many thanks for getting in touch. I suspect that Jeni’s choose either full-fat or skimmed milk depending on what is cheapest and easiest for them to get. Bi-Rite buy in their mix pre-made. It really doesn’t matter whether you use full-fat or skimmed milk at home; the use of one over the other will just mean an adjustment in the amount of cream used and doesn’t affect the rate of evaporation. Skimmed milk does have a slightly higher content of protein, but I would be surprised if this made a difference, especially with the use of skimmed milk powder in home made ice cream.
I have tried boiling my mix but found that this didn’t create the best texture or flavour, probably due to the irreversible protein unfolding that occurred as a result of elevated temperatures. I recommend heating to only 72°C and not boiling your mix to avoid irreversible protein unfolding, which is detrimental to texture.
Commercial pasteurisers probably do evaporate more water in less time but this is only because of the increased surface area and agitation from the large mixing paddles. I wouldn’t recommend getting one as they are ridiculously expensive. Instead, have a look at a stirring hot plate and an overhead stirrer.
On food and cooking by Harold McGee is a good source for the composition of foods. Other than that, you will have to get a book on fruit and food for commercial purposes. Yes, if you add ingredients with a high fat or water content then you will have to either manipulate those ingredients probably by way of heat or increase/decrease your ingredients to compensate.
I hope that helps.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hii, nice web very inspired! hmm, sry before my english isn’t good.
I just want to ask about freezer bowl,
so everytime you churning ice cream you freeze the bowl first right?
My question is how to make more than 1 flavor in one day, is that possible?
How many machine and bowl do u have?
Or you make all first, let say 3 flavors so take 3 days and then prepare to sell after that?
Thanks a lot
Greg
Hi there Gregorius!
Many thanks for getting in touch. Yes, if you use the Cuisinart ICE-30, or any other machine that doesn’t have an in-built compressor, you have to freeze the bowl overnight every time churn a batch of ice cream.
No it is not possible to make more than one flavour in one day if you are using the Cuisinart ICE-30 and the same bowl. To do this, you will have to buy a second freezer bowl. At the moment, I use my ICE-30 and I have 8 bowls. I also have a Lello 5030.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben
We tried to Skype a couple of years ago but didn’t manage to speak . Please could you re-send me your Skype details.
Thanks
Natasha
Hi Natasha!
Great to hear from you again. Sure, my skype ID is rubenportouk
Please let me know when you’re free for a chat.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben, I just saw your video-clip about Cusinearte ice cream maker ICE-30BC and I would like to ask if you fully recommend me to buy it. I´ve been preparing home-made ice cream but the consistencie is not as soft as a sundea from mcdonalds. I love the sensation in mouth of soft ice cream. Does this machine makes the preparation such as mcdonalds of Dairyqueen ice cream?. By the way, congratulations for your webpague and initiative in business. Best regards from Mexico. Thank you very much for your valuable answer.
Hi there Raul!
Thanks for getting in touch! I do indeed recommend the ICE-30. It makes excellent ice cream and I have had mine for nearly 6 years now with extensive use.
The consistency of ice cream is more dependent on the recipe you use than on the machine. By soft consistency do you mean smooth and creamy texture or a light airy consistency? Give my vanilla ice cream recipe a go and see if that is the consistency that you are after.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi! Fantastic blog, thank you. So precise! I too am/was a scientist (ok, I’m an editor now for a journal) so I really appreciate the detailed explanations and technical points. I have so many questions, but the most pressing right now is: how long do you think you can leave your ice-cream frozen for before using? I’m not talking about cycles of freeze-thawing…but if you make it, freeze it, and then thaw it and use it all up, what’s the longest that freeze stage could be? My freezer is out in the shed, it’s a john lewis standard variety, but it doesn’t get opened often so I’m confident that things in there are very frozen. When I do thaw the ice-cream, it takes about 20minutes to get to the easily scoop-able stage.
Thoughts advice mutely appreciated!!
Thanks,
Caroline
Sorry, just to clarify; the JL freezer is a chest freezer, not sure if this qualifies as a deep freezer. Also, advice is muchly, not mutely, appreciated. Thanks spellcheck.
Hi there Caroline!
Many thanks for getting in touch. The time that you can leave your ice cream in a frozen state depends on the temperature at which it is stored and its composition. You can store ice cream at -30°C for several months to a year and it will be stable with no change in ice crystal size and texture. At around -25°C, ice cream can be stored for several weeks before noticeable changes in texture develop, 1-2 weeks at around -20°C, and 1-2 days at -15°C.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Your blog is a treasure! I’m so glad to have stumbled upon it. I am considering starting a gelato business, and your blog has been so helpful. Thank you for your generosity in sharing what you know. I’ll definitely be here often. 🙂
Your fan in the Philippines,
Tina
Hi there Tina!
Many thanks for the kind words! I hope the blog helps.
Good luck with your gelato business.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben, I would like to ask if there is any techinque that makes the ice cream more fluffy. I thought but have never tried: what if, during churning, we used a kitchen mixer to replace the slow-turning ice cream maker’s dasher? This way we could put more air in it and make it softier, right? Also would it be more scoopable. Do you have any concerns on this method?
Thanks
Hi Ruben,
A fantastic blog with lots of information and techniques plus science. I do make ice cream and love making home made ice cream. Will try out these new found techniques.
Keep up the great amazing work.
Regards,
Saw
Malaysia
Hi there Saw!
Many thanks for the kind words!
All the best to you in Malaysia.
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Thank you for generously sharing all your incredible knowledge about icecream!
I have one question: why do you heat the cream and not pour the mixture over cream at the end stage as in a usual recipe?
All the best,
Sabina
Hi there Sabina!
Thanks for getting in touch. I heat the cream together with the milk, sugar, and egg yolks for two reasons: 1. because I have to pasteurise all of the ingredients I use when I sell ice cream to comply with food and safety regulations and 2. to try and promote reversible denaturation of the protein in cream as this contributes significantly to smooth texture.
I wouldn’t recommend heating the mix without the cream and then combining at the as I’ve found that this doesn’t produce the best textured ice cream.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
hi, have you ever tried pouring in a hot mix into an ice cream maker? apparently it will freeze faster:
Mpemba effect – https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/why-hot-water-freezes-faster-than-cold-physicists-solve-the-mpemba-effect-d8a2f611e853. (i am prepared to concede that the end result may be rubbish as well)
Hi there John!
Thanks for getting in touch. I have never tried pouring a hot mix into the ice cream maker but I have read that it will indeed freeze quicker than a cold mix. My only concern is that if you pour in the hot mix as soon as you finish cooking it, it won’t have any time in the fridge to age, which is important for texture.
A hot mix straight into the machine is now on my to-do list 🙂
Hope that helps.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
just dropping a note to show some appreciation for all the tips you have provided.
EXCELLENT material, in-depth, precise and with very detailed explanation.
Please do keep writing, I’m sure there are tons of readers following your site.
All the best to your ice cream shop.
Greetings from singapore
Chris
Hi there Chris and greeting to you in Singapore!
Thank you very much for the kind words. I hope the blog helps.
Keep in touch.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben. Deddington Farmers’ Market is looking for an Ice Cream seller for the June market onwards. We need someone who makes their own ice cream within 30 miles of us and who uses local products in its manufacture. Might you be interested? Our market is the 4th Saturday of every month between 9am – 12.30pm and we get about 2,000 attending.
thanks
tei
Hi Tei!
Many thanks for getting in touch. The Farmers’ Market sounds great but I won’t be free this summer to join you guys. I will be in touch next summer to see if you still need an ice cream seller.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
I’m curious if you’d like to bounce ideas off each other Offline? I’m also trying to open up an ice cream shop and been acquiring a lot of knowledge with much thanks to you and from other studies. In addition to your formulas, im using anti freezing power to ensure all my ice cream will be the same stiffness in the display cabinet, otherwise I’d have ice cream melting while the other one is frozen solid.
I have a CB-350, lello musso pola 5030, chest freezer, and planning to buy a lab homogenizer to homogenize my ice cream base.
I’d love to be able to discuss my ideas and techniques with you. My email is mtwrentals@gmail.com. let me know if you’re interested! Thanks
Hi there Mark!
I’de certainly be interested in bouncing some ideas off each other. I’ve sent you an e-mail.
All the best,
Ruben
Made the banana ice cream and it was great! Followed the recipe precisely and it was soft enough to dip. I will use your basic mix formula in all future recipes only varying the flavorings.
🙂
After I hardened it in the freezer, the ice cream was difficult to scoop and it didn’t have that frozen custard texture. But when I put it in a bowl and let it sit for 10 minutes at room temperature, the texture improved. When I used half and half to replace some heavy cream (because I didn’t have enough) it probably added water and caused ice in the product.I plan to adapt your and other recipes to the 25 minute heating time and see how it goes.It saves time!
I want to add that i was 100 grams short of cream and used half and half to make up the difference.
I used a 23.5 cm pan. The ice cream tasted very “lemony” – good balance of tart and sweet. The texture was not very “scoopable”. It came out as chunks instead. But letting it sit at room temperature helps. In the past, I have added vodka to the Cuisinart (I use the refreezable bowl type) during the freezing and it has lowered the freezing point and made for softer ice cream. I forgot to do it this time. .
Was the texture smooth? When you say the ice cream wasn’t scoopable and that you let it sit at room temperature, was this after you removed it from the machine or after you hardened it in the freezer?
I had just made your lemon curd ice cream. You mentioned that the mix must be kept at 162 F for 25 minutes. Bur you also said that that there must be a 15% reduction in weight. I reached target weight in only 15 minutes. Then I chilled the mix .My thermometer is very accurate and so is my scale. What’s more important – the 25 minute heating time or the 15% reduction in weight? You didn’t explain why there must be a 15% reduction in weight. The 25 minute heating time is much more convenient than the hour-long time in your other recipes. I would like to use this shorter heating time in other recipes I find.
Hi again David! 🙂
Interesting that you reached the target weight after only 15 minutes. What size pan did you use? The 25 minute heating time is more important so do continue heating next time. It won’t have a negative effect on texture if you reduce your mix by more than 15%. I suspect that it might actually be creamier but also a bit heavier because you will have a higher fat content.
I will be updating all the recipes on the blog with the new 25 minute heating method.
Please do let me know how your lemon curd turns out.
All the best, Ruben
Two questions: Organic milk is only available ultra pasteurized; could that be a problem for the taste?
Will your new method of weighing the mix to determine the end of heating replace the old method of heating for one hour?
Hi there David!
Ultra pasteurised should be fine as long as it wasn’t kept at a high temperature for too long. Might be interesting to do a quick taste test between ultra pasteurised organic and non organic milk.
The new skimmed milk method will indeed be replacing the 60 minute heating method as I got a lot of feedback from folks saying that this was simply too long.
Do let me know if you give the lemon curd recipe a try 🙂
All the best,
Ruben
Thanks a lot Ruben. Will get a copy of the book asap! 🙂
Hi Ruben, this is Shruthi from India. Your blog is interesting and contains a lot of information for a starter like me. Im clueless about the whole ice-cream making logic, but I love ice cream and that is driving me to instincts to learn to make ice-creams. Can you help me out on from where I could get a start and learn about the ‘Ice cream logic’ please? I am also looking at taking the Penn State University’s short course to get a start. It would be great if I get suggestions about good courses offered across the globe for a basic beginner like me. I would like to put up my own Ice cream shop in India sometime in the future.
Hi Shruthi!
A big hello to you in India! A good place to start is the University of Guelph’s food science page maintained by Professor Goff – https://www.uoguelph.ca/foodscience/book-page/ice-cream-ebook.
I would also highly recommend Ice Cream by Goff and Hartel. It’s an excellent book that contains a lot of information on ice cream manufacturing and one that I use daily.
You could also have a look at the ice cream course held by Professor Goff and the University of Guelph.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Thanks for the info. Have you ever tried rhubarb ice cream or ices. Here on the west coast of Canada it is almost ready to pick. I have a garden full to use up.
Haven’t tried rhubarb ice cream but it is now on my to-make list 🙂
Wow! Ruben, Your blog is incredible. Thank you. My head feels like it’s about to explode with all the new information I’ve learned. I stumbled across your site because I’m simply looking for an ice cream maker! And am looking between the Breville, deLonghi, and Lello. I haven’t looked at the Cruisinart yet. Actually, what I’d like to be able to make most is ices and sorbets. I have many fruit trees and berry canes on my acre and would like to use the fruit in a different way besides making pies, jams and other baking. I’m a bit afraid of making a lot of ice cream however since I don’t need more fat in my body. Ha ha. I have read various posts from people asking about ice cream makers and your responses so I guess it’s now up to me to decide how much I want to pay since you seem to say these ones all make great ice cream. Denise
Hi Denise!
Thanks for getting in touch. I would give the DeLonghi GM6000 a miss as it wasn’t the best machine I’ve tried. The Breville and Lello machines are fantastic but a little expensive. The Cuisinart ICE-30 is a good bet as a first machine as it’s cheap and makes excellent ice cream.
Let me know if you need a hand.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Been following your blog for for a few weeks now and love it! So much information, thank you! By the way, how is your ice cream goals coming along? Were you able to start your ice cream business?
Kyle
Hi Kyle!
Many thanks for getting in touch. Hope the blog is helping 🙂 I’ll be selling ice cream at food festivals this summer whilst I save for some commercial equipment; slowly but surely. Do you run an ice cream business of your own?
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben. Very nice website. I have been referencing your blog a lot. Here in South Africa we cannot get all the stuff that you mention.
I can suggest the Nemox mark of ice cream makers. I bought the K-tech version, for smaller home use. It is a machine with its own cooling unit. I have found it amazing! It is especially quiet, and the dasher scrapes off flash from the bowl. You can also use the removable bowl or the fixed bowl.
All the best!!!
Hi Willie!
Many thanks for getting in touch and a big hello to you in sunny South Africa! Just had a quick look at the Nemox machines and their larger ones look impressive; might be one for me to consider 🙂
Which of the ingredients are you having trouble sourcing? I’ll be updating the recipes soon to bring the 60 minute heating time down and make it a little easier to make at home.
All the best,
Ruben
Hello, I am new in this forum and I want to say that this site is great!!!
I am traying to find the way to avoid meringue dissolution during ice cream production. I am from Argentina and it is very common to find solid meringue in ice cream flavours but I can not do it because it is dissolved when mixing in the production.
Thanks in advaced.
Seba
Hi Sebastian!
Hello to you in Argentina! I’ve never tried using Meringue in ice cream before but have you tried adding it after a batch has been churned? If you add it to the ice cream machine whilst it is churning a batch, then it will break down. But if you add it after a batch has been churned but before you place it in your freezer, it might help to keep it intact.
Hope that helps.
All the best,
Ruben
This site is a great read!
Anyway my question is have you ever used clotted cream as fat content ?
Would it work or curdle? What do you think?
All the best and a happy new year!
Hi there!
I’ve never used clotted cream myself but I think, with a bit of stirring, it could work. The high fat content (around 63%) would mean that you wouldn’t need to use that much milk. It would also be interesting to see what effect on flavour clotted cream would have.
Hope that helps.
Happy new year!
Ruben
HI Jon Lou,
The reason all but one of the companies you mentioned (ample hills) use a “mix” is because we are not as savy at dairy as a dairy scientist is.. Unless you can tell me the fat characteristics of a Jersey cow, a Gernsey or a Holstein….or how the food they have available to them at different times of the year affects the output of the cream…..well then, you are going to have a very inconsistent product. McDonalds is a lousy hamburger…but it’s lousy in NYC, In Bogata, in Paris, ect. In other words, when you walk into a McDonalds anywhere in the world at any time of year – you know what to expect. If your ice cream vairys from visit to visit you will lose customers. A mix is nothing more than milk, cream, sugar and powdered skim milk. Yes we add the same emulsifiers and stabilizers that you would to make it ice cream….but it’s all done in large batches with key dairy scientists watching it over it. People who are paid thousands of dollars to see that you get a consistent and perfect blend do a far better job than we could. I could not make my own mix…I’m from the Bronx, I’ve maybe seen a cow twice in my life! Personally to me what makes ice cream ice cream is the flavor. Use a lousy mint and you get a lousy mint chip ice cream. That simple.
Our instruction manuals go into great detail about the blades being put in properly. That’s the problem with buying used. AND you can scan the QR code on the front of my new machines and go to our video help desk – also viewable at http://www.emerythompson.com.
Hi Steve,
Its great to be able to speak to you! I just want to say you guys make amazing batch freezers and I have your CB-350. I unfortunately did not buy a new CB-350 from you guys, I instead bought a used one that was manufactured in 2012. However, in a year or so, I hope to be buying a new 24 quart batch from you guys when I open up a store front.
Back to your statements, I agree that ice cream made with pre made mixes will be consistent no matter what the year is. But, that holds true with ice cream made with their own mixes. I’m not sure if you’re thinking if the cream and skim milk will be directly bought from the farm rather from the store. I’m planning to buy the cream and skim milk from a distributor that already filtered out the exact amount of milk fat. The same as buying cream from the grocery store and buying skim milk from the grocery store, exact buying it wholesale from a distributor or directly from the supplier. The labels on the back of the cream and skim milk already states the quantities of milk fat, and etc. So there is consistency with your own mixes.
Going back to why these ice cream stores like bi rite, ample hills, etc make their own mixes, it is because it allows us to be creative with our own flavors. If you were to make honey lavender, your ice cream mix must contain honey and sucrose (cane sugar), a 2:3 ratio. Pre made mixes are not flexible, they contain only sucrose. Same goes for banana foster ice cream, it uses brown sugar. Pre made mixes do not compensate for brown sugar. This is also true for fruit based ice cream such as strawberry ice cream. You have to lower your water content in your ice cream base mix to compensate for the extra water content in fresh strawberries. Also for bi rite salted caramel, they do not use a pre made mixes. The caramel is mixed in directly with the heavy cream, and then skim milk is added to it. Caramel flavor is not added to the pre made mix. This is why bi rite does so well, because they don’t solely rely on pre made mixes. This allows them to be creative with their flavors and won’t be held back.
I’ll definitely try to use pre made mixes for flavors such as vanilla and chocolate or such when I can. Hope this makes sense. Also, Ample hills owner was a writer, with no prior experience in culinary arts or a chef.
Hello all, especially to Mr. Thompson and his wonderful machinery. I love this blog, but feel the need to weigh in re: ice cream companies and mixes. I agree that making one’s own mix allows for greater control over flavor profiles, but I also know that a lot of companies do not make their own bases, no matter what their cookbooks say. This includes Bi-Rite, which makes wonderful ice cream and is a great company. There are ways to work with a commercial mix to achieve desired flavor profiles: add molasses instead of brown sugar to the commercial base (in small quantities) to achieve the desired brown sugar flavor profile. Roast fruit or cook it on stove top to reduce liquid content before adding it to the ice cream base. I also would suggest that stabilizers, which are used in such small amounts in mixes, will improve texture. Check out Max Falkowitz’s article(s) on Serious Eats for further discussions re: the benefits of stabilizers. Anyway, thanks for listening, and keep up the good work!
Hi Ruben,
If you are seeking any funding for your venture let me know as I am passionate about ice cream and wish to see the possibility of funding the venture. Please write me an email if you are interested.
Regards,
Harish K S
Dubai
+971529287880
Hi Ruben,
Wow, just stumbled upon your blog. A huge thank you for sharing all this information, your experience is invaluable. I live on a dairy farm and can’t wait to get started making ice cream 🙂 Thanks again for generously sharing your wisdom, I look forward to seeing where your ice cream journey takes you. Keep up the great work!
Hi Fleur!
Not a problem. Happy to share best practice and techniques to improve ice cream making at home!
Hope the blog helps.
All the best,
Ruben
Rueben,
Very nice site. I’m wondering if you are up for working with us on a piece on soft serve ice cream. Let me know if you are interested.
Hi Dan!
Thanks for getting in touch. Sounds interesting; what do you guys have in mind?
All the best,
Ruben
TOTALLY diggin this blog!
🙂
Hi Ruben,
Steve Thompson here. Jeff is mostly wrong and the part he’s not wrong about is half wrong. In the short run, i.e. low volume you can use a chest freezer to harden your ice cream. If you have an empty freezer or already frozen product in the freezer and you put “warm” ice cream into it of only a few gallons – It will harden it. But these chest freezers were designed for you to bring home already frozen green beans, a frozen pizza, etc. and hold it at a frozen state – not to harden or flash freeze ice cream. If you put 5 gallons of “warm” ice cream into one of these freezers the internal temp. of the box will skyrocket up. Jeff says he does it quite nicely. But what he isn’t telling you is that as his business has grown, he now owns 11 chest freezers. He now needs a flash (hardening, blast) freezer. His comments are dishonest – but what do you expect from a left wing Obama supporter!
Rather than try to reduce the water in the skim milk, we all buy powdered skim milk which works better and easier. And yes, Ann at Bi-Rite uses a blend (mix) from a local dairy in San Francisco called Strauss Family Creamery that is also organic. Ann uses our model 24NW-IOC batch freezers. I invite you all to visit my 110 hours of videos at http://www.emerythompson.com. And yes, when I make ice cream, ices and gelato, I make every mistake under the sun! You’ll come away thinking “if that fool Steve Thompson can make frozen desserts…imagine what I could do!
Cheers!
Hi Steve!
Always a pleasure to have you on the blog! I agree that chest freezers may work for low volume production but not once you start making a lot of ice cream. I do think that investing in 2 chest freezers is an excellent way to start a small business on a budget though.
I prefer to leave skim milk powder out of my ice cream because I think consumers will not see it as a premium product if skim milk powder is listed as an ingredient. It takes a little more time to make ice cream using my method but I think the results are worth it.
I’m looking forward to trying your CB-200 in the new year!
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
It is great that I have stumbled upon this amazing resource! I have a question about residential freezers for startup. I’ve been looking at the Thermador brand, which has specs indicating it can get down to -22F on SuperFreeze mode for approximately 48 hours. I’ve also been looking at a much cheaper FCL-44 Top Open Compact Laboratory Freezer that gets down to -30C, which is the same as -22F. Is one more beneficial than the other? And the fact that it is a lab freezer specifically designed for lab specimens…such as immunizations, etc. does that matter? Neither of the freezers are blast chillers. My main concern is getting to the appropriate temperature needed to minimize the formation of those nasty ice crystals…no stabilizers; no emulsifiers. Any suggestions appreciated.
Kindest regards,
Lisa
Hi there Lisa!
Many thanks for getting in touch. After you churn your ice cream, you want to get it down to a temperature where minimal ice crystal growth occurs and do this AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. Blast chillers are good because they can cool food quicker than regular freezers.
You will have to take into account the amount of ice cream that you will be freezing at once. Putting large quantities of ice cream in your freezer all at once will result in a slower freezing time. Also, check the maximum quantity of food that each of the freezers you are looking at can freeze in one go. A regular chest or home freezer will work if you are freezing small batches.
You could also get two cheaper freezers and split your ice cream between the two. Also, don’t put ice cream that you have just churned in with ice cream that is already at around -30°C as the warmer ice cream will likely raise the temperature in your freezer, depending on how much of the warm ice cream you put in at once.
I am working on cutting out the use of blast chillers all together by using a combination of ice and salts. Because water conducts heat faster than the air in a blast chiller, I am hoping this method will decrease the time it takes for my ice cream to reach -30°C. I would recommend that you look into this method of cooling. It takes a lot more work but I think the end result will be worth it. I can let you know once I have perfected the process. There is a good chapter in Ice Cream by Goff and Hartel about this.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben, Just letting you know that I received my copy of Ice Cream by Goff and Hartel and am devouring it. (Recall on 18 August 2015 I contacted you about blast chillers and getting that temperature down. You mentioned an ice and salts method that would help out with that.) Turns out that Thermador option didn’t work out for me. When we put an actual thermometer in the unit at the store overnight it never broke minus nine degrees. What a shame. So I am going to explore the salt and ice method as well. I am trying my best right now not to buy a blast chiller/freezer so wish me luck! Please let me know if you actually experiment with the salt/ice method and share your results. Many thanx! 🙂 …Lisa J
Hi again Lisa!
Good to hear that your copy of Ice Cream arrived. I can’t quite remember the part in the book that mentions the salt and ice chilling method; I think it might be under the ‘static hardening’ section. Let me know if you can’t find it and I’ll have a look.
I do indeed intend to experiment a lot with the salt and ice method so I will try and write up my research on the blog. This might be a while though.
Let me know how you get on.
All the best,
Ruben
Hey Ruben,
Do you have an email that we can contact each other? Maybe we can bounce ideas off one another. You can reach me at jleelou@gmail.com
I’ve realized I’ve put the blades in backwards. For some reason the CB-350 manual online does not mention which direction to put the blades in, but the 12 quart emery thompson manual describes it perfectly. Once I’ve put the blades in the correct direction, my ice cream takes only 6 minutes to freeze since I use less ice cream mix. I make about 4-5 pints, roughly 2 quarts of ice cream in 6 minutes. If I leave it in there any longer, the ice cream will harden too much and the ice cream will not flow out of the outlet and a lot of ice cream will be stuck between the blades, spinning in circles the entire time.
No the blades have not been sharpened, I can tell the blades are slightly worn, but putting the blades in the right direction, there is very little ice cream stuck in the cylinder.
As for as bi rite, no, I still believe they are boiling the skim milk to reduce water content. Bi rite does by their ice cream mix from strauss, but I believe California law is that all ice cream parlors must start their ice cream with ice cream mix bases. So the ice cream parlors in Cali, buy pre made ice cream mixes, but start with pre made ice cream mixes and then add in their own pasteurized mixes. The law just requires them start with pre made ice cream mixes but they can then use their own pasteurized mixes. I do not believe bi rite uses only pre made ice cream mixes, they do make their own.
I don’t understand how Steven Thompson believes in pre made ice cream mixes, it obviously reduces your flexibility with making new and inventive flavors. You are not going to get far with using all pre made ice cream mixes obviously. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it and making big bucks.
However, I’ve come to realization that the CB-350 is definitely not large enough. I will have to go with the 24 quart emery thompson batch freezer. Otherwise, you’ll be making ice cream all night and day, and you definitely don’t want to be stuck making ice cream all day. Think about it, you spend 60 minutes trying to reduce water content on a ice cream mix, and then spend a day aging it, and then freezing it in the batch freezer, and then waiting hours for it harden. That’s at least 2 days for just one flavor of 3 quarts on your CB-200…. Thats a joke. Your CB-200 is just a testing device. You’ll obviously need to upgrade and get at least a 12 quart or 24 quart… Obviously the 24 quart because its only $2,000 more.
It is true you’l have to spend nearly $100,000 to start an ice cream parlor if you want to be successful, or at least be competitive in an area where other ice cream shops are opening up.
And I definitely do not agree with chest freezers. I do agree with Steven to get a walk in freezer, it makes since. You don’t want to waste money on a hardening freezer that eats up your electricity bill and heats up your room, and only able to harden a small amount of ice cream. With a walk in freezer, it is cheap. All it is, is an insulated room with a big compressor on top to freeze the room. The insulated room is cheap, its just sheet metal with insulation, that stuff does not cost much. And then you put a freezer unit on top. Inside are just shelves, you can buy those shelves used at craigslist or some auction. If you look at any successful ice cream business (bi rite, salt and straw, ample hills, humpry slocombe), they all use walk freezers.
Hi Ruben! I’ve been scouring the internet for days for more information on how to make ice cream that’s super creamy and finally came upon your site. Your site is the best thing I’ve ever seen. No other site even comes close to it, you really do explain everything down to the smallest details and has tremendously helped me make better ice cream.
I’m kind of like you as well. I’ve always been an entrepreneur at heart and wanted to do my own business. I’m a mechanical engineer in the U.S. in Texas and plan to quit soon and start an ice cream shop here. I’ve been reading all your work and love it. You’ve been mentioning the ice cream maker Emery Thompson and I was looking to buy one as well. The new price is pretty steep, at $9,759. My question to you is would you recommend buying a used one (CB-350) over eBay for less, or would you rather buy a new one? I can’t decide because I’m not sure how sturdy and reliable ice cream makers are.. Please let me know what you recommend! Thank you so much!
Hi John!
Always good to hear from a fellow ice cream enthusiast. Great to hear that you are thinking of starting your own business. I’m actually going to invest in the CB-200 ($5560) in the new year. I toyed around with the idea of jumping straight in with the CB-350 but the cost is just too high for a first machine. I think the 3 quart capacity on the CB-200 is more than enough to start a business and trial some flavours. My only concern is that the CB-200 doesn’t come with the infinite overrun control but Steve Thompson (CEO of Emery Thompson) has told me that it is set for super-premium ice cream at between 50-100% overrun. I will then upgrade to the CB-350 as I grow the business.
Steve recommends that you get in touch with him first if you are thinking of buying a used machine on e-bay. I think he will let you know how long it has been operated and maybe any work that has been done to it. He does say that his machines are designed to last over 45 years but that this depends on how well they have been looked after. If you can find a machine that has been well-looked after, then check with Steve first and then consider investing as this may be a good investment. Also have a look into the CB-200 as this a much cheaper way into the ice cream business.
Let me know if you need a hand and do keep in touch with how you get on with your business.
All the best,
Ruben
Thank you for your reply Ruben! I haven’t checked back in a while, been busy with work and ice cream planning! I’ve been looking around many locations here and found a great place with a lot of foot traffic here in Dallas. However, the retail space is 1,500 sq ft, way too big for me, in fair/poor condition, used to be a clothing store so no plumbing/electrical set up, and cost $3,800 per month. I’d be taking a huge risk and stress on myself to quit my job and start straight from scratch. I have money saved up and would be taking a loan, but looking at the costs of equipment and starting up, I’ve decided to take it slow and buy my equipment first and begin perfecting the recipes with my new equipment.
I’m thinking I may decide to go ahead and get a CB-350, but will continue looking for a used one and get with Steve to see how long it has been operating.
One thing question though Ruben, I’ve been looking at various equipments (Batch Freezers, Display Freezers, automatic stirrers, batch freezers, etc.) and one equipment that popped out at me was the vat pasteurizer. I’ve read a few recipe books from ample hills creamery and others, and noticed they all mention they use a vat pasteurizer to “pasteurize” their ice cream base. However, I look at the average prices for these vat pasteurizers and they cost $14,000 for a 15 gallon size!!!
So why in the world would they need to buy a $14,000 bucket to just heat the ice cream base to 71 deg C? Many recipes use different ice cream base mixes, so I’d imagine you can’t rely on just one big vat pasteurizer to make all your ice cream bases.. It kind of blew my mind they’d spend $14,000 for something as simple as heating liquid up to 71 deg C.
So my main question, why not just use multiple 6 quart pots to “pasteurize” your ice cream bases? Were you considering buying a vat pasteurizer? I personally would rather just have multiple large pots with an automatic stirrers attached that are heated up with a stove top or hot plate.
Hi again John!
I think the vat pasteurisers are a waste of money. Much better to get a much cheaper magnetic stirring hot plate, or a hot plate and an overhead stirrer for larger batches. I really don’t understand why vat pasteurisers cost $14,000 and I certainly wouldn’t recommend investing in one.
Hope that helps.
Do keep in touch with how you get on with your CB350.
All the best, Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Yes I definitely agree, the vat pasteurizer is a waste of money, especially when first starting up an ice cream shop.
I just wanted to let you know I got my CB-350 a few days ago! I bought it used on ebay, but I was very cautious and kept looking online for many weeks before I decided to get it. It was manufactured in 09/2012, so it is still very new. I haven’t had time to make a batch of ice cream yet, but I plan to do so tomorrow. I’ll let you know how it turns out with my composition, (15% milk fat, 13.3% sweeteners, 9.23% MSNF, 37.5% total solids) That’s my mix for honey lavender. I’ll be setting the machine at 231rpms, because I was watching a youtube video on bi rite creamery in San Francisco and noticed one of their videos they set their 24 quart emery thompson at 231 rpms when freezing their salted caramel.
Also I’d like to point out, I saw them boiling their mixture. I’m thinking they were boiling the skim milk to reduce water content, it has to be it. I knew they were leaving an obvious amount of steps in their recipe book. I think they boil their skim milk for a certain amount of time, then reduce heat, and dump in the heavy cream, sugar, eggs, etc. But they definitely have a walk in freezer, no hardening cabinet. I’ve watched videos and hardening cabinets are a electricity hog. If left in a room, it’ll turn a 73F room to 90F in a matter of hours since it produces so much heat.
Anyways, I’ll let you know how it goes!
Hi Ruben,
I made two batches of honey lavender and banana foster ice cream. The ice cream came out extremely creamy, I could not detect any ice crystals whatsoever. I have the breville ice cream maker that takes 30 – 35 minutes to freeze the ice cream to about 23 F, the CB-350 took roughly 10 minutes.
Some drawbacks though, it is difficult to clean. I use ster sheen to sanitize the machine but it doesn’t exactly get rid of everything, there is still bits and pieces of ice cream inside on the blades. I want my ice cream to be perfect and not contanminated with any other flavors so I take out the blades and everything. Also, when running the machine with the stera-sheen cleaner, a lot of water splashes out of the machine from the spout at the top. The cover doesn’t keep the water from splashing out, so I use a towel to cover it up.
Also, the blades are confusing as to which direction to put them in. I must have put them in backwards because I had a lot of ice cream frozen inside the cylinder that didn’t get scraped off by the blades. This must be the reason why I didn’t produce as much as ice cream as I should have and reason why it took longer than 8 minutes to freeze.
The definite drawbacks on the machine is cleaning. The front cover piece is very heavy, I don’t think a girl can lift it off and try cleaning it in the sink. You’d have to hire only men to operate the machine. And the springs fall off easily, including the bushing cap.
The protective spout cover is a pain in the ass as well. Its kind of a moot point to spend all the time sanitizing the cylinder when your spout cover and inlet is covered with old ice cream. You’d have to screw off the spout cover each time to clean the spout area, otherwise you’d have old ice cream that can grow bacteria. So I’m not sure why they use that kind of design
Other than that, I’m still very impressed with the texture of the ice cream. I have to say, the texture of the ice cream has a lot to do with the ice cream maker. The texture of my ice cream from the breville machine and the emery thompson is night and day. If I had a hardening cabinet or walk in freezer, I’d be able to sustain that extreme creamy texture right out of the machine and serve the best ice cream ever.
Hi John!
Very interesting to read your feedback on the 350 so many thanks for sending that over. What size batches are you making? Did you manage to get the freezing time down to 8 minutes or it is still at 10? I have heard that the blades on the dasher last for 4-5 years; have yours been sharpened?
Very interesting to read your point on texture depending a lot on the machine. I have been under the impression that it is all about how the mix is prepared so I can not wait until I get my hands on a 200 to see what effect that has on texture.
So what is the next step for you now that you have your 350?
Going back to your point about the guys at Bi-Rite boiling their skim milk: I’ve read that Jeni’s Ice Cream does this primarily to reduce the water content. I don’t know whether this has a negative effect on the protein due to irreversible protein denaturation, which has a detrimental effect on texture. I have been toying with the idea of reducing the water content in milk using a vacuum system that would allow the boiling point to be reduced down to a temperature where irreversible protein denaturation would not take place. The equipment is a bit expensive so I haven’t had a chance to try my theory but I will let you know once I get round to it. I will also try what Jeni’s approach to boiling the milk, although I think I have already tried that and wasn’t impressed with the texture/flavour.
Also, Bi-Rite buy their mix pre-made from a creamery so I’m not sure whether the milk you saw them boiling was for the mix; maybe for some kind of sauce?
Have you watched any of the videos on the Emery Thompson site and youtube? He has some videos where he goes through how to use his machines with a chap called Tye dye something (can’t remember his name). That chap runs his own ice cream business and says that he doesn’t use a blast chiller to freeze his ice cream after churning. He puts his batches straight in a regular freezer and argues that that is enough. It would be interesting to make a large 6 litre batch and test his approach.
Do let me know how you get on.
All the best,
Ruben
Hey, fellas. It’s my understanding that pasteurizers not only heat the mix to the appropriate temp, but also hold the mix there for the required time period, and then cool it down properly to avoid new bacterial growth. And yes, $14 K for 15 gallons sounds about right. Too expensive for my little Seattle company to consider at this point.
So I use a blast freezer; the benefit of a blast freezer is that it chills the ice cream down rapidly, which aids in preventing development of big ice crystals. And I think it preserves the quality of the ice cream longer.
I’ve used a variation of Jeni’s recipe, boiling the milk and cream mixture, and it makes a smooth-textured ice cream without a noticeably “cooked” flavor, as long as I keep the boiling time to 4 minutes as specified. The idea behind the boiling, as per Jeni, is to denature the proteins. I think it denatures the whey protein; it’s my understanding that denaturing casein is a little trickier. Hope I’ve added to this discussion!
Hey! Can you explain the science behind gel ice cream makers! Luv ur blog! THX!
Hi Arianna!
Thanks for getting in touch! Do you mean the freezing gel that is found in the removable bowl on the Cuisinart ICE-30? This is the cooling agent that freezes when you put your bowl in the freezer overnight (not sure exactly how cold it gets). The heat from the ice cream mix is then transferred to the freezer bowl and the mix is frozen as it is churned. Hope that answers your question.
Any problems, let me know!
All the best, Ruben
i just got the ice -100 in the email yesterday. any recommendation for beginner to try ? i like sour thing. also i ifind lots of ice cream/gelato/sorbets uses cream can i substitute with 3% milk ?
Hi Tiffany!
I hope you have been putting your new ICE-100 to good use. If you don’t use cream in your recipe, your ice cream will likely turn out coarse and grainy because milkfat contributes significantly to smooth and creamy texture. I wouldn’t recommend substituting 3% milk for cream; you really should use both in your recipe.
If you give me the fat percentage of the milk and cream you have available, I will put a recipe together for you to try.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Tiffany!
Thanks for getting in touch! Good to hear you got yourself a ICE-100. You won’t get the same smooth texture if you substitute milk for cream as milkfat contributes significantly to smooth and creamy texture. Give one of the recipes on the blog a go but if you find the 60 minute heating time too long, here is a recipe that requires a modest 35 minutes of heating at around 71.4°C:
Cream at 35% fat 598g
Milk at 2.7% fat 291g
Skim milk powder 50g
Sugar 169g
Egg yolks 91g
That will give you a 1200g mix. Make sure you use a large 23cm diameter pan and heat the mix for 35 minutes at around 71.4°C. It is very important that you reduce the mix by at least 19% to end up with 50.2% total solids, 20.21% fat, 10.16% non-fat milk solids, 15.75% sugar and 4.08% egg yolks.
Before you start heating, weigh your pan (A). Then add the ingredients and weight your mix and the pan together (B). Then heat for 35 minutes and weight the pan and ingredients together again (C). Then do the following to get a reduction percentage B-A= x. C-A=y. x-y/x times 100 = percentage reduction.
If you haven’t reduced your mix by 19% after 35 minutes, put it back on the heat for a couple of minutes and repeat the equation above until you get 19%.
You should get about 972g after heating. Make sure you age your mix overnight before you churn it.
Hope that helps.
Let me know if you need a hand.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
Why do you up the milk fat to 20% , MSNF to 10%, and total solids to 50%? I got the Ice cream science book by Goff that you mentioned and the book says for super premium ice cream, you want your milk fat to be 14-18% , MSNF to be 5 to 8%, and total solids to be 38-40%.
Do you increase those compositions to compensate for the longer time to freeze the ice cream? If you were using an emery thompson (8 min freeze time) would you decrease the compositions back to what the book states?
Thanks,
John
Hi John!
Thanks for getting in touch! Yes Goff and Hartel do suggest a TS content of 38-40% but do remember that theirs is a commercial ice cream book; my recipes are geared towards the home cook.
I do indeed increase the TS content to compensate for the longer freezing time on a domestic ice cream machine. I haven’t actually tried an Emery Thompson myself (that will soon change hopefully) so I can’t say whether the Goff recommendations produce a good-quality ice cream using a commercial machine.
I’ll hopefully be getting my hands on an Emery Thompson CB-200 soon so will be able to give you a better answer then.
What is your background in the ice cream making world?
Let me know if you have any other questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
I’m just a home cook like you who wants to open up an ice cream shop here in the states. I’ve been looking at the CB-350 and hoping to be able to pick a used one up soon. If I do get one, I’ll be sure to come back here and let you know how it runs.
Hi Ruben, first off, as a complete noob at ice-cream making, I am finding your site very helpful. Anyway, I recently purchased the lello 4080 musso lussino 1.5-quart ice cream maker, but have been experiencing the same problem each time. Whenever I pour the mixture in to the bowl, it instantly freezes to the base and sides, creating a layer that comprises probably of at least 1/4 of the mixture. I have tried stopping the machine and scraping it off, but it just forms another layer when it resumes churning. Here is what I do: heat the mixture over a stove, refrigerate for around 24 hrs, then 20 mins before churning I turn on the chill function on the machine, then after the 20 mins, start churning, then pour the mixture in. I end up just scraping the mixture off with a knife after the churning is finished, which leaves me with an excess of little frozen flakes. Am I doing something wrong? Any help would be appreciated as I have no idea
Kind regards,
Jacob.
Hi Jacob!
Good to hear from you. You are always going to have an issue with a layer of mix freezing to the bowl on the 4080. This is because the churning blade doesn’t reach the side of the bowl to scrape off the layer that gets frozen there. Most commercial machines (Emery Thompson batch freezers) use a spring loaded dasher that pushes the blades firmly against the side of the freezer bowl. This means that anything that freezes to the side of the freezer bowl gets immediately scraped off and incorporated into the rest of the mix.
I use my thumb on my Cuisinart ICE-30 to push the mixing paddle against the side of the bowl to make sure that a layer of the mix doesn’t build up. As it is impossible to push the blade against the side of the bowl on the 4080, I just leave the machine running and then use a wooden spoon at the end to scrape off as much of the mix into my plastic container as possible. I have found, however, that the layer that gets frozen to the side of my 4080 has excellent texture and is just as smooth and creamy as the rest of the mix. I suspect that the total solids content in your mix might be too low and the water content too high if you are left with an excess of frozen flakes. Try increasing the fat content, sugar, and egg yolks to increase your total solids content.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.
All the best,
Ruben
Awesome! Thanks for your help Ruben. I will try your suggestions.
hi Ruben,
I’m writing from Switzerland, where the ice cream scene is pretty dead.
I stopped eating sugar (fructose, to be precise) about three years ago and the one thing I miss terribly is ice cream. I’ve been working on fructose free recipes and in my quest to make my ice cream creamier I stumbled upon your blog.
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your findings with the rest of us. Heating my mixture at around 71 degrees for an hour made all the difference to the creaminess of my ice cream (as you can imagine, not using sugar can compromise the texture significantly). My latest batch of matcha ice cream got two thumbs up from my boyfriend and he doesn’t even like green tea!
I have a couple of questions for you, I hope you don’t mind:
You review quite a few machines, which one do you actually use regularly?
Are you now fully involved in ice cream making, or is this currently your side gig which you hope to convert to a full time thing (this one is purely out of curiosity)?
Have you ever considered using something like the Kenwood cooking monster, or a thermomix/hot mix pro for the heating stage? I’m hoping to provide sugar free options to more than just my household of two and was wondering how I would get around the heating and stirring stage when doing larger batches. I’m probably going to have to upgrade my ice cream maker too (I have the cuisinart one with the bowl you have to freeze), which is why I was wondering what you use. What is your output like at the moment?
Thank you 🙂
Hi Christine!
A big hello to you in Swtizerland! I’m experimenting with using skim milk powder in my recipe at the moment to bring the heating time down from 60 minutes to 35 minutes; let me know if you want to try the recipe I’m working on as I would love some feedback.
What are you using to sweeten your ice cream? Have you heard of Jeni’s Splendid Ice Cream in the U.S? Jeni makes her ice cream using corn starch and corn syrup to improve texture. This might be something you should try if you are omitting sucrose or fructose as the starch and syrup will make up for the lack of total solids in your recipe, although they might not necessarily sweeten it. You could also try adding skim milk powder to increase the total solids content in your mix.
I’m actually using both my Cuisinart ICE-30 and my Lello Musso Pola 5030, which I have recently bought. The 5030 has allowed me to increase production slightly from the 5 litres a day I was limited to with the Cuisinart. The business is on hold at the moment until January 2015. I’m saving a bit more money to invest in a commercial Emery Thompson machine. I intend to jump head first into the business in January.
The Hot Mix Pro looks interesting but quite small. One of the reasons I keep my mixes at around 71.4°C for 60 minutes is to increase the protein content without having to add skim milk powder. I’m guessing that the small surface of the hot mix pro won’t be able to evaporate as much water as I need it to in 60 minutes. I’m using a magnetic stirring hot plate at the moment, which isn’t bad. It allows me to keep a constant temperature and also stirs the mix. I have had some issues with the magnetic bar skipping and not stirring when I make large batches, which is something I need to look at. A more expensive option is a magnetic stirrer with an overhead mixer. This should solve the problem of the skipping magnetic bar. I would recommend that you start with a magnetic stirring hot plate if you are looking to increase production without having to stand around stirring. Have a look at http://www.ika.com. This is where I got mine from.
I hope that helps. Let me know how you get on.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben
I am Kshama from India and looking to open a small ice cream cafe in India. I have been reading your blog and it has been very informative. I have some queries regarding the equipment to start off with.
I am looking to make ice cream without the use of eggs and yet to work on recipes. Commercial ice cream making processes follow the steps of blending mixtures, pasteurizing,homogenizing , freezing and hardening. There are equipments available for each of these costing about $2000 and more. For starting up what substitutes can be used for each of these processes? keeping in mind that while testing recipes I need to keep costs and wastage low.
Are equipments for commercial purpose available in the 2-5 litre capacity category.
Thank you for your inputs so far 🙂
Regards
Kshama
Hi there Kshama!
A big hello to you in India! Great to hear that you are looking to open an ice cream shop.
I use a magnetic stirring hot plate as my pasteuriser and it works incredibly well. Commercial pasteurisers are way too expensive and not worth the cost in my opinion. I don’t homogenise my mixes and currently use a chest freezer for chilling and storage. I will be increasing production in the new year so will be looking into a blast chiller or using an ice and salt combination to act as a blast chiller. I will also be upgrading my ice cream machine with a commercial Emery Thompson machine. If you are testing, I would say that all you need is a domestic ice cream maker and a freezer.
You can get a stirring hot plate and an overhead stirrer for larger 2-5 litre batches. You will, though, need a commercial ice cream machine when making more than 1.5 litres per batch. You will also probably need a blast chiller.
I hope that answers your questions. Let me know if you need a hand with anything else.
All the best,
Ruben
I am very happy to find another person trying to make low-sugar ice cream. I might ask, what is your reason for lowering sugar? If you want to lower the glycemic index of the result (i.e., its tendency to raise blood sugar levels) I recommend WheyLow. It has about 30% of the glycemic index of table sugar. Also, Ruben, it has extra whey solids as part of the way to stop blood sugar rise. In the Jeni’s ice cream recipes I have replaced sugar with WheyLow and my family cannot tell any difference.
Hi Roger!
Many thanks for getting in touch. Sugar does contribute to smooth texture and my only reason for lowering it is so that my ice cream isn’t overly sweet. I think that all too often companies use a lot of sugar in their ice creams because it is the cheapest ingredient.
Hope that helps.
All the best,
Ruben
I want to build a statue of you (made from ice cream) and plant to the city center because of your dilligent research and for the precise information. I was a bit dissappointed after i started to make my first ice creams with my newly bought beginner level ice cream machine. I tried and developed methods of my own (like adding skimmed milk powder etc.) but they were not sufficient. Then i figured out ice cream making is more about “physics” then a “recipe”. So one day thinking about the science of ice cream making i ended up to this blog (by simply typing ice cream science lol). Long story short, switching to low fat/skimmed milk instead of whole milk and 1 hour heating process crucially changed my whole ice cream game. Much thanks and good wishes from Turkey.
🙂
Ruben,
What a brilliant resource your blog is!! I have always loved ice cream, but have recently, for health reasons, had to cut dairy out of my diet, which is unfortunate as I really like it!!
So after searching around I found “CO YO Coconut Milk Ice Cream Alternative”, however it is like $15 bucks for a small tub in Australia and is really quite hard. The Chock/Cherry is the softest (and it’s still hard compared to regular), the other flavors are icy and hard.
So I recently bought, (before I came across your blog), an ice cream maker, (The Breville Smart Scoop Model – BCI600), in the hope of perfecting my own coconut ice cream. I, like you are a big fan of not having additives in.
To make things more complicated, I am also not able to eat eggs.
I have made 3 batches now, and the last one I heated (also before I read your blog), which had by far the best texture. I only bought to a simmer on a medium heat and simmered for 4 mins, and the mix was really quite thick after this. The mix had:
– 1 Can Aroy-D Coconut Milk (no additives just coconut extract and water).
– 1 Avacardo.
– 1 Bottle of The Big Bang (350ml Pear, Apple, Spinich, Banana & Mango juice 100% natural no heat and no additives).
– 1 Tbl spoon of Vanilla Extract (added into the ice cream maker at the start of mixing).
– 8 Fresh Medjool Dates.
– 1 Tbl Spoon Maple Syrup.
– 2 Flat Tbl Spoon of Tapioca Flour.
I blended the dates and coconut milk in the Thermomix, then added avocado and blended more.
Then I put this mix into the saucepan and slowly brought to a simmer on a medium heat, the added the Tapioca flour that I had pre mixed into a slurry with a bit of coconut milk, and then maple syrup, and simmered for 4 mins. By this stage the avocado was smelling like it wouldn’t take much more, so I took off the heat and put into a bag and submerged into an ice bath.
I had the ice cream maker on pre cool which took it down to -30.
After the mix was just a bit warm, I added it in. It took about 40 mins for the machine to say it was ready, (it has a hardness setting and measures the pressure against the mixer to detect when ready),
It was the best one I had made yet, the texture was much thicker than the others… I had tried using Tapioca Flour before, but without heating it, and it made the texture of the ice cream quite sandy. But this was nice an smooth and had a great roasted avocado taste.
However every batch I have made (the heated one was the best) has frozen quite hard… and is not scoopable, and a bit icey. With this last one the texture did change after overnight freezing, and then defrost for a little while and it was scoopable, bit it was quite firm… a bit like icing…
So I stoked to find your blog where you have broken down the science of it all. I am a computer programer by day so I am all up for doing experiments and going through a process of elimination to work out the ratios of things I need.
The thing is I am not using dairy or eggs. So I have no lactose, casein or lecithin working in my favour.
So the nutritional value on Full Cream Milk Per 100ml here is:
Energy (kj) 269
Protein (g) 3.3
Fat
Fat Total (g) 3.4
Saturated (g) 2.3
Carbohydrate (g) 5.1
Sugars (g) 5.1
Calcium (mg) 120
Sodium (mg) 50
The nutritional value on Aroy-D Coconut Milk Per 100ml here is:
Energy (kj) 757
Protein (g) 1.6
Fat
Fat Total (g) 18.5
Saturated (g) 13.1
Polyunsaturated(g) 0.20
Monounsaturated(g) 0.75
Carbohydrate (g) 1.95
Sugars (g) 1.95
Sodium (mg) 18.5
The nutritional value on Aroy-D Coconut Cream Per 100ml here is:
Energy (kj) 885
Protein (g) 1.58
Fat
Fat Total (g) 21
Saturated (g) 19.5
Polyunsaturated(g) 0.28
Monounsaturated(g) 1.27
Carbohydrate (g) 4.78
Sugars (g) 1.92
Sodium (mg) 12
So I guess the first thing I want to do is get the ratios of Protein, Fat, Sugars correct for a coconut base. This is why I have put the data above, in case you can assist with this.
I had added the avocado to try and increase the fat… but I need to first define my target ratios and then I can get data on all my ingredients and add in the correct percentages.
Now with the data you have researched on the folding of proteins in milk:
– Does that concept apply to protein in all foods?
– Does the same temperature apply the the protein in coconut as it does in milk?
– How can I observe the folding of proteins in coconut milk. Like how can I get confirmation it has happened. Can I take a sample at various stages and look at it under a microscope and identify a certain structure or something?
I am attempting to replace the job that eggs do with Tapioca flour, heating it seems to make a real difference and it seems to come out of the ice cream mixer pretty good, but still after freezing overnight it has lost it’s nice texture, and becomes hard and a bit icy, and when defrosted a bit has a stiff texture..
I am going to buy a digital kitchen thermometer soon. The thermomix can heat and stir, but you have to have the lid on otherwise it won’t turn on. The lid has a hole in the top about 2.5 inches, but I was thinking of getting a small fan like PCs have in them and putting it on there to suck the steam out.. The other issue is the temperature only goes up in blocks of 10 degrees, so I may look at getting a magnetic stirring hot plate like you have.
Anyway sorry for the super long post… look forward to hearing from you, and thanks for the great work you are doing here.
Regards,
Scotty
PS: You have prob already seen this one by there is some interesting info here:
http://www.icecreamnation.org/science-of-ice-cream/
Hi Scotty!
Good to hear from you. First of all, I think you get the award for the longest e-mail on the blog! Good choice on the Breville Smart Scoop machine by the way; I tried it last week and was extremely impressed with the ice cream it made.
I have been looking into making a dairy-free ice cream for some time now but haven’t yet taken the plunge into actually making it. I think it will be a bit tricky for you if you are not using egg yolks in your recipe. I’ve had a play around with my formula and have come up with this recipe that you could try:
Coconut Cream 658g
Coconut Milk 199g
Sugar 160g
This will give you an ice cream with about 17.5% fat, 3.9% non-fat solids, 16% sugar, and 37.4% total solids. Heating for a prolonged time will also increase these percentages, which would be beneficial, but I don’t know what the optimal heating time is. What you could do is first try heating for 30 minutes and see how much the mix gets reduced by. To do this, first weigh the pan you will be using. THen weigh your mix in the pan before heating. Take the weight of the pan away from the weight of the pan and mix. Then weigh the mix again in the pan after heating. Then take away the weight of the pan from the weight of the pan and mix after heating. Take away the weight of the mix after heating from the weight of the mix before heating, divide that sum by the weight of the mix before heating, and times that by 100. You will then get the mix reduction as a percentage. You can then calculate the new percentages of fat, protein, sugar, and total solids after heating, which I can give you a hand with if you need it.
I haven’t tried this recipe myself so can’t say whether it would produce an ice cream with creamy texture. My guess is that it won’t be the creamiest because of the relatively low total solids content of 37.4% (I usually work around the 49% total solids mark after I heat my ice cream mix). Again, this can be increased through evaporating some of the water. You could also try increasing the sugar content but this will, of course, make it a lot sweeter. I would recommend you trying the recipe and seeing how it compares to your other batches. You could also use Tapioca starch or flour to make the mix thicker. I have never used tapioca myself so can’t say how much is good to use.
With regard to your other questions, denaturation of proteins applies mainly to the whey proteins found in milk but I am not sure whether whey protein is found in coconut milk – I don’t think it is. I also don’t whether heat causes other proteins to denature. There is a way of observing denaturation in whey protein but I have no idea how to do this, sorry.
Don’t forget to also age your mix overnight after you have heated it to promote the crystallisation of fat droplets; I noticed that you said you churned a batch of ice cream after you had let it cool down a little, which isn’t the best thing to do!
I don’t think I have been much help so apologies for that. Making an ice cream without milk or cream is on my to-do list that I haven’t yet got round to completing! Let me know if you have any more questions or need help and do keep me updated if you try the recipe above. Just remember that practice makes perfect!
All the best, Ruben
Hello!
First of, great work. Really impressive stuff! As a medical student and a culinary geek I truly appreciate your effort in consolidating knowledge about the biophysics, chemistry and physics of ice cream. However I have one conundrum that you may be able to address.. When we heat our mixtures, as you say, partly to reversibly denature whey proteins, I don’t seem to grasp the effects of cooling and successive aging on this process. The point of not denaturing beyond your estimate of 71,4*C, is that the chains can stabilize to their native form when cooled. A nuance to the question could be: Does the denatured whey interact with the remaining material suspended within the mixture, before cooling, and thus “lock” the denatured form unless seperated from the solubles? Otherwhise, wouldn’t cooling and aging countaract the reversible denaturing of the whey?
Cheers, S.
Hi Sebastian!
Always good to hear from a fellow ice cream enthusiast. A very interesting question.
The total solids in a mix does decrease the overall rate of protein denaturation during heating but I don’t think that the material suspended in the mixture promotes or encourages the proteins to ‘lock’ their denatured form.
When proteins hit a sufficient temperature to break bonds, they begin to unfold. Partial, or reversible, unfolding can improve functionality whereas the more extensive the state of denaturation, the less functional the protein becomes. The term ‘reversible unfolding’ is a bit misleading because when the mix is cooled, these proteins do not refold again to the same structure.
So, I don’t think that it is the other ingredients suspended in the mix that cause the unfolded proteins to ‘lock’ their denatured form before cooling. Instead, during the ageing process, these proteins refold to a different structure and in a way keep, or ‘lock’, their denatured form, and so the ageing process does not counteract the reversible denaturing of the whey.
I hope that helps. It’s not very often that I come across someone who is interested in discussing the science behind ice cream making so let me know if you have any more questions.
All the best, Ruben 🙂
Thanks for the swift answer. I see where you’re going but, as you say, a sufficient temperature must be provided to break the bonds. The kinetics of proteins follow the same laws as other substances – that is, when energy (increase in temperature) is higher than the energy within the bonds keeping the protein in its native form, the structure unfolds. However, the native state is always the least energetic and hus the most stable form of a molecule. Compare i.e. NaCl, a molecule that desolves more quickly in liquids when heated.
What I mean is that somehow the unfolded state seems to behave differently when cooled in the aging process, than it would do suspended in another medium. Although I am aware of this occurring elsewhere, like in human serum in vivo, this is seldom accomplished without the aid of compliment proteins or ‘chaperones’.
Please don’t consider me to lecture you, more like pitching ideas!
Cheers, S
Hi again Sebastian!
Not at all! It would be stupid of me not to listen to people well versed in food science, or anything else for that matter, so I don’t consider this a lecture at all! So do you think the unfolded proteins would have more favourable effects if the mix was not aged?
On a separate note, do you make your own ice cream?
All the best, Ruben
Thanks so much for your reply! I definitely agree that heating the yolks with the milk/cream from the beginning makes it easier NOT to curdle the eggs. On another note, I’m wondering about your heating time. If you wanted to cut your recipe in half or double the recipe, wouldn’t you have to adjust the heating time? Otherwise it seems like too much or not enough would be evaporated from the mix during the heating. If you doubled the recipe and heated it at 71.4 degrees in the same size pan you usually use, wouldn’t concentrating the mix take longer? Maybe not double, but some amount of time longer. This would seem like a pretty big consideration if you planned to sell the ice cream since you would have to make much more than 750ml in one batch!
Also, the size of the pan would seem to really matter as well. The bigger the pan, the higher the surface area/the faster the rate of evaporation. From my own experience with other recipes, sometimes I felt that too much was cooked off from the mix. Maybe because the temperature rose too high and started concentrating the mix too quickly. This resulted in a much smaller yield than I would have expected considering how much milk/cream the recipe started with! I’m curious what you think about this issue.
Hi again Dan!
I don’t increase the heating time when I double my mix during the festival season. You’re right in that when the mix is doubled, you don’t get the same rate of evaporation. I compensate by increasing the size of the pan and my modifying my recipe slightly to take into account the lower rate of evaporation. When you increase the amount you make, it’s all about experimenting until the texture is perfect.
You’re also right about the smaller yield that is left after evaporation. Because my primary goal is quality, I don’t really mind that I am left with less ice cream to sell because 30-40% of it has been evaporated in the production process. This does mean smaller profit margins per batch but to me this is not a problem.
Are you looking to start selling ice cream yourself?
All the best,
Ruben
Hello Ruben! I love your site here. I have a question for you. In your recipes you mentioned adding the egg yolks to the pan with sugar, then putting the cream/milk and heating to a certain temperature for a certain time. It seems like every other recipe I stumble upon says to heat the milk/cream and then add that to the egg yolks/sugar and then add it back to the original mix and continue heating. It seems like this second method would increase the chances of curdling the eggs. Do you know why others recommend doing it this way? Is there any advantage? Thanks so much.
Hi Dan!
Great to hear from you! Most recipes do indeed call for the milk and cream to be heated first and then slowly added to the egg yolks. I suspect that people do this primarily to prevent the eggs from curdling. I tested a few different mixes where I heated the milk and cream separate to the sugar and yolks and then combined all the ingredients. I found that this way didn’t produce the same creamy texture as when all the ingredients are heated together.
Using a thermometer to keep the mix at somewhere around 71.4°C whilst stirring also makes sure that the yolks don’t curdle. Mixing the yolks and sugar together before you add the milk and cream also helps prevent the yolks from curdling. In my tests, I have not found a benefit of heating the yolks and sugar separate from the milk and cream and have not had any problems with curdling when I heat all the ingredients together.
Hope that helps!
Ruben
HI Ruben
THINK I MISLEAD U ABOUT THE CREAM, I SAID DOUBLE CREAM IS 22PC FAT , ITS NOT SORRY, ITS 48PC.
DOES THAT MAKE THE RECIPE U GAVE MEW ABOVE INCORRECT , IT SEEMS LIKE LOT OF CREAM
great
i was going to make the one with nuts as basic [omitting the nuts] , untill u gave the one above with milk powered, may i ask how long to heat for using the milk powder recipe
re messages: if i fail with the capcha type security obviously i need to go backwards, but then i always loose the typed message…..hence my shorter not well written messages
thanks for the invaluable source of info
mark
my polite msg has returned it seems
message system is broken keep loosing msg.
keep not getting reply , please someone tell me what % cream to replace the 33% cream with in the uk , here double cream is 22% which is the only practical one to use
also how much skim milk powder to use if i take that route?
thanks
Hi there Mark!
Many thanks for getting in touch. I have to approve all messages before they go live on the site. That’s why they don’t automatically appear when you write in 🙂
Here is a recipe if you are using double cream at 22% and whole milk at 2% fat.
Cream 872g
Milk 12g
Skim milkk powder 66g
Sugar 163g
Egg yolks 88g.
Make sure you use a large pan to evaporate enough of the water during the heating process. What recipe are you going for?
Hope that helps.
Ruben
Hi Ruben,
I just found your website and I think it’s terrific! You give out a tremendous amount of information that I’m sure your readers really appreciate. I of course, grew up in the ice cream machine business and my Dad used to bring home any flavor ice cream we wanted – as long as it was vanilla. Dad (Theodore Thompson and his brother Emery Thompson Jr.) were two of the WORST ice cream makers in the world. Their idea of making ice cream was to put the blend into the machine and run it until something broke on the machine – which it never did. So after an hour of running an 8 minute process, they would put it up into 4oz. cups and bring it home. It was so over processed it was awful. I think I’d rather eat brussel sprouts than Dad’s ice cream. He lived to be 100 and now I’m the ice cream maker of the family. Hmm, I wonder what would happen if I ran one of my ET’s for an hour for one batch. Would anything break? Maybe I’ll make some vanilla ice cream tomorrow and see what happens……
Hi Steve!
Many thanks for getting in touch! I feel slightly intimidated speaking with you as you are the ice cream maker king! I’m slowly but surely working my way towards your CB-350 machine and can’t wait to have some pictures and video of it in action up on the blog!
All the best,
Ruben
I made two batches with your method; chocolate and a mint chocolate chip and they turned out fantastic. In fact, I made the mint chocolate chip first the conventional way using the finger on the spoon test and I then I made it with your technique. The ice cream had a brittle texture in the freezer the first time but was very smooth and creamy the second time. The evaporation technique seemed to have lowered the freezing point so the ice cream remained soft right out of the freezer without the need to let it soften at room temperature. I don’t mind the 60 minute stirring; it’s worth the trouble. I did notice that a cup or two of water evaporates during this process. I expect that commercial ice cream manufacturers would probably not want to use this method; they would have to charge more. It would be cheaper for them to use additives like gums. One more question: Would this method work with frozen yogurt? I plan to mention your website when I review my ice cream maker on Amazon.
Glad to hear your ice cream turned out well! Also interesting that you don’t mind the 60 minute heating period; I think this puts a lot of people off trying the technique. I agree that a commercial ice cream manufacturer would want to keep evaporation down to a minimum because the more water that evaporates, the less product there is to sell.
I’ve never actually tried making frozen yogurt myself so don’t know whether the method would work. I suspect that heating yogurt at around 71.4°C for 60 minutes would have a detrimental effect on the bacteria though.
Many thanks in advance for your mention of the site in your amazon review!
All the best, Ruben
I just recently discovered your website. You said to cook the mix for 1 hour at no higher than 71.4 C to concentrate the proteins for smaller ice crystals. I tried your 1 hour evaporation technique on a batch and I have yet to freeze it but it looks good. I have access to many ice cream recipes but not all use eggs. Should I still do the 1 hour cooking with eggless recipes?
Hi there David!
If you have a recipe that does not contain eggs, I would still recommend heating it for 60 minutes at around 71.4°C to increase the percentage of protein and promote reversible protein denaturation. Although I think heating for 60 minutes will have a possitive effect, I don’t think a mix that a non-egg mix will have the same smooth and creamy texture as one with eggs.
Let me know how your first mix heated to 60 minutes at 71.4°C turns out. I’ve had a lot of feedback saying that stirring a mix for 60 minutes is too much work so I’m working on a recipe that contains skim milk powder and only requires 30 minutes heating. I will post this recipe once I am happy with the results. How did you find stirring your mix for 60 minutes?
Hope that helps! Ruben
Hi Ruben.
I’d like to contact you via email. Can’t find an adress here so there probably isn’t one.
I’m also interested in starting ice cream business. However there are some uncertainties to solve before I can even think about it. Maybe you could help. I mean if you want to.
Hi there!
I would love to talk about your ice cream business uncertainties; perhaps we can help each other overcome some of these.
My e-mail address is rubenporto at icecreamscience dot com
Look forward to hearing from you. 🙂
Greetings! I just discovered your blog and it’s wonderful! I love making ice cream at home and although I no longer make animal milk based ice cream (I usually use coconut milk and coconut cream now), I still use many of the same techniques. I’ve been fascinated with ice cream for a long time and it’s my dream to have my own shop one day. I’m looking forward to catching up on your posts and learning more about ice cream making.
Ruben – I am also thinking about starting an ice cream manufacturing business. But don’t worry, I’m here in New York, far from Oxford – which I understand has quite the murder rate! You’d think that between Morse and Lewis, any prospective murderers would have become discouraged by now, or at least considered murdering anywhere but Oxford. But I digress. 🙂
Anyway, I was wondering what led you to want to buy an Emery Thompson as opposed to say, a Taylor, or some other brand. Sure it seems like the Cadillac of ice cream machines, but at almost $10,000 for the 6-quart machine, would other brands be a lot cheaper?
Also, on a totally separate note, wouldn’t any soft serve ice cream maker be sufficient, as long as you then froze the product for 24 hours afterwards? Meaning, since it all comes out like soft serve anyway – or so I understand – could I use a soft serve machine instead of a more expensive batch freezer, and freeze the product to have it harden?
Would be very interested in your thoughts on both questions. Thanks.
– Jon
Hey Jon! Great to hear from you! Inspector Morse has given Oxford a bad name; it’s really not that bad! The reason I chose an Emery Thompson was because of the reputation it has as a company that makes durable products. Just seeing their machines, and CEO, on youtube helped too. I have looked at the Carpagani and Taylor but they just don’t look as well-made as the ET. I have also been in contact with ice cream shops in the U.S who highly recommend the ET machines. I would rather pay extra for a quality machine that will make the best ice cream. A batch freezer is a long-term investment so I don’t mind paying extra for one that is the best on the market.
I’ve never used a soft-serve machine so don’t really know whether it could be used instead of a batch freezer. I’m guessing the texture would be a lot lighter, and possibly sandier, than a batch freezer.
How far along are you to starting your ice cream empire?
All the best, Ruben
Thanks for the info, Ruben. Yes, I’ve seen those videos too, and they do inspire confidence. They also make making ice cream to seem rather easy, too!
I am not that far along at all. Just investigating right now. I haven’t quit my day job – as a lawyer. Unfortunately for me, I stayed after the first day of law school, and 18 years after graduating, I am looking to get out.
I am interested in making a high quality gourmet product for “foodies” with alcohol in it – for example, one flavor might be bourbon vanilla – but the pricing is a problem. I thought I could “get away” with charging a higher price for it, say, $8 a pint, and distributing locally here in New York. I’ve seen other brands sell for $9 or even $14 per pint (yikes!) at certain upscale stores.
However, investigating further at a local “foodie” supermarket, they’re selling such brands at only $5 a pint. I assume that price means that the manufacturer is selling them to the store at something like only $4 a pint. That price point means that I would have to triple the amount of ice cream I would have to sell in order to make the amount of money I was thinking I need to make – to basically replace my legal salary. I can’t quit my day job just yet!
Hi Ruben
I am connected to Skype most of the time so just contact me whenever you are free.
Thanks
Natasha
Hi
I have sent you a contact request on Skype so hopefully we can chat this week.
Thanks
Natasha
Hi Natasha! I’ll be free tomorrow evening for a chat. Let me know what time is best for you. All the best, Ruben
Hi
Yes Skype works for me .
What is your Skype name ?
Thanks
Natasha
Great stuff. My skype username is rubenportouk
Let me know when you are free next week for a chat.
All the best, Ruben
Hi Ruben
I am in France at the moment so will see if there are any alternatives to the paste.
I would be interested in hearing about you kickstarter experience if possible.
Maybe we could have a chat off line?
Thanks
Natasha
Hi again Natasha,
Always happy to chat with other foodie; let me know if skype works for you or pop to Oxford when you’re next in the UK.
All the best, Ruben
Hi Ruben
I am going to try your hazelnut ice cream. What can I use instead of hazelnut paste?
How is your kickstarter campaign going?
Natasha
Hi Natasha! Thanks for getting in touch! Umm, I’m not really sure what you could use instead of the hazelnut paste. You might be able to get hazelnut flavouring but the taste won’t be as nice as if you were to use paste. You could also try using some kind of hazelnut liqueur (can’t think of one off the top of my head). Do try and use hazelnut paste if you can get your hands on it as it gives an excellent flavour to the ice cream.
The kickstarter campaign unfortunately wasn’t successful but an interesting experience nonetheless. Going to have to think of a different way to raise funds for the all to elusive Emery Thompson machine!
Hope that helps. Let me know how you get along if you do try the recipe.
All the best, Ruben 🙂
Hi Ruben,
Are you currently selling in Oxford? Where can I get some nice organic ice cream?
Also, I would love to taste some passion fruit ice cream.
Hi Viviana! Thanks for getting in touch. Sadly no; I’m not selling in Oxford yet but hope to be if my kickstarter campaign is successful!
Passion fruit ice cream is certainly on my to-do list.
Hope to see you in Oxford! 🙂
Can you post somewhere how we can find your kickstarter campaign? I’ve never done this, but I love your ideas.
Hi again Roger!
My Kickstarter campaign ended last summer but the video is up on the About me page on the blog.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben (:
All the best with opening the shop I really hope it will work out!
I read everything on your blog now, and its really great.
The best ice cream I ever tasted was a coconut macaron one, if you need some inspiration (:
Hi Stella! Many thanks for getting in touch! Coconut macaroon ice cream is now on my to-do list!
Hope the blog helps!
Hi Ruben
Great blog! This has been the most helpful website for ice cream making that I have found, and I’ve seen a lot of sites – so, thank you!
Like you, (and Kisero above) I am really keen to make my own organic ice cream with minimal use of processed goods (and one day sell it, if it is good enough:). I really would like to make Philadelphia style ice cream with no eggs, and was wondering if you had any advice, tips as to how to make good, smooth ice-cream with a decent shelf life without the emulsifying benefit of eggs? Is it possible? Thank you
Hi Suzy!
Thanks for getting in touch. I’ve never actually made egg-free Philadelphia-style ice cream myself so you probably know more about it than I do! Have you tried any recipes from the Jeni’s Splendid Ice Creams book? I know that she doesn’t use any eggs in her recipes and focuses instead on cream cheese and some kind of starch.
Sorry for the lack of info in this reply. Come over to the world of egg-based ice cream!
Let me know if you need any more help.
All the best, Ruben
Thanks Ruben. I have tried out Jeni’s recipes and they do produce some great , creamy ice-cream. But like you, I am trying to avoid anything too processed (ie tapioca starch and corn syrup). I am impressed you have even given skim milk powder the boot! Seems though, that you have to have some sort of emulsifier. So egg based ice-cream – here I come!
I’m glad to see that someone else has used Jeni’s cookbook. I felt like a lurker until I read this! I’ve been using her book as a starting point, but I want to reduce the amount of sugar. It does make nice tasting ice cream, but I’m going to try your method on my next batch.
Awesome site! Your recipes and techniques inspired me to make some of my own. I just made toasted pumpkin seed ice cream – and its delicious – if you like pistachio, you’d probably like the pumpkin seed flavour too.
thanks, I understand your mix thickening process now. As you know, every public recipe simply advises stopping after ~10 minutes when you can run a line down the back of a wooden spoon hence my 50/60 confusion. This maker is a breville bci600xl, it defaults to auto where you essentially select how stiff the product needs to be, so the dial selects from gelatos thru sorbets to finally, ice cream, of three hardness settings. For instance I made salted caramel contained in its manual – very similar to your recipe – and the mix after gaining maybe 30% in volume gets stiff enough that the motor really slows down by 40 minutes, then that triggers the machine to stop. It claims to be doing all this churning at -30c not sure how accurate that is. The ice cream was a hit though. If I age the mix instead of just ice-bath cool it, and do the one hour reduction, it’ll be superior still, I look forward to tasting the improvement.
hi! having found your blog after picking an apparently well regarded ice cream maker from breville, I am wondering if it (the machine) was not such a good choice.
First it is impossible to hold the dasher so it scrapes around the pot, and indeed when emptying it there is a thin layer of icy mix coating the pot. Second even with precool selected, and a cold aged mix, the churn time until the machine decides the motor is straining against the consistency varies but is rarely less than 40 minutes. Of course I can select a softer setting to finish faster but perhaps that is counter productive?
am I doomed to have larger than optimal ice crystals forever with this machine?
second question: when holding the custard at just over 70c for 50 minutes, do you need to stir it at all?
thanks!
Hi there Justin!
Fear not for there is always hope for the aspiring ice cream maker, or some other words to that effect. Even if you can’t push the dasher against the side of the machine, this won’t necessarily mean that you’ll be left with grainy ice cream. The 40 minutes churn time is a bit long but, again, it doesn’t necessarily condemn you to a life of grainy ice cream. What do you mean by selecting a softer setting on your machine? Does this mean that the dasher doesn’t beat as quickly? I’ve never come across an ice cream machine made by Breville before.
It is very very important that you hold the ice cream mix at around 71.4°C for 60 minutes instead of 50; the extra 10 minutes really does make a difference! It is also imperative that you stir! If you don’t stir the mix, it is likely that the egg yolk will stick to the bottom of the pan, causing it to curdle. You also slightly increase the rate of evaporation by stirring, which contributes to developing a creamy texture.
Hope that answers your questions. Let me know if you need any more help.
All the best, Ruben
Cool site.
I ‘ve been lazy & working so I brought ice cream from a local Deli
( they stocked Steves a brand I really liked).
But he closed up & with summer coming I’ll start making my own
again soon.
I’ve got access to somed Duck eggs,could be really good,or really
bad 😉 .Either way will be fun finding out.
Anyway enjoying the site.
All the best Joel.
I’m writing since i had in mind the same dream of making my small organic ice cream business (although my professional background is totally different) in eastern europe, where i live with my wife and son.
i was looking for some mentoring .. perhaps some training, some ideas .. do you have the time? contact me if you are interested! kisero@gmail.com
Hi Kisero! Thanks for getting in touch. I will send you an e-mail to discuss some ice cream!
All the best,
Ruben
So glad I came across you on YouTube and now your blog. Just recently ordered a Cuisinart ICE-100 and looking forward to putting your science to the test! I will shoot you a message on Twitter, too. I’m a coffee geek (amongst other things). I’m Japanese-American and find your journey interesting as I have family in Japan, have lived and went to college (Sophia University) there, and still visit from time to time. Cheers!
Ohio! And that’s the extent of my Japanese language skills. I absolutely loved Japan and hope to return one day (oh how I miss the wasabi ice cream and the sushi).
I hope the blog helps. The ICE 100 hasn’t been released in the UK yet so would be great to get your feedback once you’ve put it to the test.
All the best, Ruben
Haha, ohayou! It would be cool to see you come up with a wasabi ice cream recipe! I would skip the sashimi ice cream, though ;-).
Yes, I will try to make a product review of some sorts on my YT channel (/consumerfanatics). Forgive the recent content on there. It’s not really a focused channel. And the presentation won’t be as good as yours. I ended up selling my video recorder so I might have to iPhone it for the ICE-100.
Dear Ruben,
I have nominated you/your creamy blog, for the Sunshine Award!Congratulations!
You can pick up your badge and information/rules on how to pass the torch and play it forward at : http://kickass-cooking.com/2012/12/15/thanks-for-the-sunshine-award/
No pressure, you don’t have to participate if you don’t want to..just thought it was a good way to tell you that I love your blog!
What is this special way of increasing NMS that you are talking about? I would also prefer not to use skim milk powder.
Whoops, I read your sweet cream base article and figured out how. That’s very interesting. What do you do when adding things such as strawberry puree or chocolate which reduce the NFMS even more? Should I read those other recipes? Because I’m on my phone right now, haha.
Hi Kevin,
I haven’t had any problems adding chocolate to a mix. Adding cocoa powder and cocoa butter will slightly increase the total solids content but I am not sure by how much exactly. I have been able to get good texture in the chocolate ice cream recipe: http://icecreamscience.com/2012/06/03/chocolate-ice-cream-recipe/.
Because strawberries contain a lot of water, adding strawberries to a mix will increase the water content thereby decreasing the percentage of non-fat milk solids. I have gotten round this by heating the strawberries to evaporate some of the water. This does have its drawbacks however; a loss of colour and a slightly altered flavour being the two most significant changes. I’m currently working on a way to reduce the water content in strawberries with minimal heat in a vacuum. Until I have figured the vacuum thingy out, heated strawberries is the best solution I have.
Hope that helps but let me know if you have any more questions.
All the best, Ruben
Thanks for the website. My great grandfather made home made ice cream that he sold out of his store. The tradition has been handed down to me. I generally use a traditional ice cream make made by White Mountain Freezer. I’ve found better recipes than my grandparents had. Good stuff on a hot summer day!
Hi there, glad you like the website. Do you run your own ice cream shop?
No ice cream shop…..I just make it for family and friends at special events. Most of my homemade flavor center on a base recipe of 2 eggs, 3/4 cup of sugar, 2 cups of heavy whipping cream, and one cup of whole milk. To that base, I add vanilla, malt, strawberries,orange juice, or what to make the flavor I want
Hey I like the updates to the site haven’t been here in a while it
looks good.
Hi Mike, good to hear from you again. I’d love to try one of your egg-less recipes if you have a good one.
I guess American ice cream may be slightly less creamy but it doesn’t have that custard taste which I think for certain flavors may be a good thing like fruit flavors. However most of the artisanal producers in NY use eggs I guess that’s one way my concept differs. I’ve had Van Leeuwen it’s really good I haven’t had Milkemade but I know it’s pretty pricey. If you get a chance check out Ample Hills in Brooklyn they make and pasturize there own mix and are similar to what I would like to be doing at least in terms of doing it from scratch.
Hey great site I too have a passion for making ice cream. I have read much of the same material you have. Just saw your salted caramel recipe I will have to try it. I usually use powdered milk or egg yolks I have never used them together. Well I will let you know how it comes out. Thanks for the recipe and other great info.
Hi Mike, glad you find the information useful. I have found that a mix containing both egg yolks and skim milk powder produces a far smoother and creamier ice cream than one containing just one of these ingredients; give it a go and see what you think.
I would be interested to see how your salted caramel ice cream turns out so do keep me updated.
All the best, Ruben
Your recipe is a good one! Although to be honest I always tend to lean more towards an American-style ice cream. I guess it depends on the flavor.
So I was wondering about what you wrote above. Are you going to work at an ice cream shop in Oxford or were you hoping to open your own? My wife and I hope to open a shop here in NYC one day. I recently enrolled in the Penn State University ice cream short course. It doesn’t start until January unfortunately. I see that you’ve done a lot of research have you had the opportunity to take any courses? If so please tell me if they were worth it.
Thanks
Mike
Hi Mike, I’d be interested in getting your feedback on American-style ice cream; I imagine it to be less creamy and rich because of the lack of lecithin from the yolks? Did you try the salted caramel recipe?
I want to open an ice cream shop in Oxford: it is such a beautiful city and I think it needs some artisanal ice cream. I’ve also applied for a street seller licence from Oxfordshire County Council for the summer so I might be there sooner than I thought!
Sounds great that you and your wife want to open an ice cream shop in NYC. I’ve been following some of the smaller producers there (Van Leeuwen and Milkmade) and like the street food vibe you guys have.
I did want to enrol on the ice cream course run at University College Cork, Ireland, by Professor Douglas Goff, (who has written some good papers on ice cream making), but wasn’t in Europe at the time it was being run. I will try to attend in 2013. I have heard good things about the Penn State course; I think the owner of Jeni’s Ice Cream did one there.
Let me know how your course goes if you do yours before I do mine!
All the best.
Hi Ruben,
Do you have an e-mail address that I could email you? I would like to send you images of ice creams that I want to ask you about texture.
Thanks
Tep
Hi Tep!
Thanks for getting in touch and apologies for the delay in getting back to you. Sure, you can reach me on rubenporto at icecreamscience dot com
Looking forward to seeing those images.
All the best,
Ruben
Hi Ruben, thank you for all of the advise you give on your site, it’s priceless! Do you by any chance have ice cream mix calculation page for vegan (coconut base) ice cream? Many thanks and happy spring 🙂